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Outside, Dunyain, and the Anasurimbor Uncertainty Principle posted 06 Apr 2006, 02:04 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

We've been having a little discussion over on the TT board about the nature of the No-God, some idle speculation about the Outside, and the assertion that Kelhus makes that ultimately he believes the Dunyain would side with the Consult if they knew what he knew. Anyway I have a sort of question, really I'll just post my thoughts on the matter and hopefully you can at least tell me how logical they are Scott and if I'm close to the mark :) My thoughts are that the Outside is the ultimate wild card variable, and that it's existence and influence on the world ultimately is a barrier to the mission of the Dunyain to become Prime Movers. One example is for instance Damnation, sure there are some scriptural laws/actions/evidence that denote some actions as being worthy of Damnations (such as practicing Sorcery), although I am sure that even if the Dunyain accept the Outside and Damnation they would still tend to reject scriptures written by men. Even if they accepted it in part, to me the idea of Damnation is still something of a card game with some level of arbitrary on the action of the dealers (The Agencies of the Outside), so I don't see any real gaurentees. This is what I have decided to call the Anasurimbor Uncertainty Principle :) Given that you can't really say exactly what would or would not condemn your soul after your death it becomes the ultimate monkey wrench in the calculation so to speak. Anyway those are just some of my thoughts. Obviously where with your work we see everything through the lens of the characters there are many things that I merely take at relative face value but the only main assumptions I make are that the Outside exists, Damnation is a real possibility, and that the Agencies of the Outside have some control ovet that possiblity. Any response is welcome, even a RAFO :) view post


Understanding needed... please! posted 07 Apr 2006, 20:04 by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

I have yet to understand why the Consult, Nonmen and Inchoroi alike, believe the writings of the Tusk. Each race predates it, so why all of a sudden, when it became a known text to them, did they think it relevant or true? The same goes for sorcerers. If anyone should be an authority on what happens [i:2bk919ug]after[/i:2bk919ug] it would be The Few, and yet they buy into the same crap. I remember Akka saying in TDTCB, "Though faith may die, her sentiments remain," (or something like that) but this is intolerable! Knowledge has a tendency to discourage delusion, and I can think of no knowledge more exhaustive, in the Three Seas, than Mandate knowledge. Even the Nilnameshi seem to have a working "understanding" of the many aspects of the Outside. Scott, did you ever explain why the beliefs of both the Inrithi and the Fanim were so relevant to those three parties: Inchoroi, Nonmen and The Few? Also, I noticed that the Satyothi are green-eyed. Very cool! Can you give us any information about their culture and whether or not they have a school among them? Or more importantly, give a crash-course understanding of thier philosophical beliefs, like you did for the Nilnameshi in WP.[/i] view post


posted 07 Apr 2006, 21:04 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I don't think the Inchoroi, Non-men and Consult believe in the dictates of the Tusk. We haven't yet seen the religious beliefs of the Non-men by any means. There are many reasons why the Erratics began joining with the Inchoroi, and we don't know if the Inchoroi's original war with the Non-men had the same motivation as that of the Apocalypse. All we know is that the Inchoroi and the Consult as a whole believe in the possibility of Damnation not how closely their beliefs align with the Tusk. (And given that the Tusk condemns Non-men and instigated an idea of extermination among the Tribes of Men who follow the Tusk I don't think they think to highly of human scripture. :) ) view post


HUH? posted 13 Apr 2006, 16:04 by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

And yet they are willing to close the world to the Outside. Why if not for fear of the "truth" of the scriptures? view post


Re: HUH? posted 13 Apr 2006, 21:04 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

[quote="Mahajanga Mordecai":1890d8qk]And yet they are willing to close the world to the Outside. Why if not for fear of the "truth" of the scriptures?[/quote:1890d8qk] Just because they recognize the odea of Damnation doesn't mean they are getting that recognition from the Scriptures. The Non-Men appeared to have had a civilization far more advanced than the one of the Tribes of Men in Eanna (who are no in Earwa) in the time of the Tusk. I think Scott has mentioned before that they had their own religious beliefs we just haven't seen what they are yet. It is also compounded by the fact that Sorcery may not have anything to do with this idea of Damnation. I think the Inchoroi thought they were damned due to their nature and the acts they perform. The Non-Men Erratics who are members of the Consult similarly commit acts of depravity so that they can remember them. All we really know is they: a) think damnation is a real possibility b) want to overcome that I don't think either of these stems from the Tusk which is human religion. Look at real world religions and catalogue unrelated ones that have a conception of heaven/hell or other things they have in common. view post


posted 19 Apr 2006, 16:04 by n0g0d, Candidate

I like that idea of the Anasurimbur Uncertainty Principle. There is a lot of finesse to it. It might be something in the new book. o_0 view post


posted 06 May 2006, 03:05 by Cynical Cat, Auditor

A few points 1) The writings of the Tusk condemn both sorcery and Nonmen. 2) While human religions seem to be merely human constructs, the Outside is clearly real. 3) The Inchoroi are creatures of limitless cruelty and malign carnality. If there is a hell, and there are certainly demons, they deserve to go if anyone does. view post


posted 07 May 2006, 04:05 by Entropic_existence, Moderator

[quote="Cynical Cat":71trwvza]A few points 1) The writings of the Tusk condemn both sorcery and Nonmen. 2) While human religions seem to be merely human constructs, the Outside is clearly real. 3) The Inchoroi are creatures of limitless cruelty and malign carnality. If there is a hell, and there are certainly demons, they deserve to go if anyone does.[/quote:71trwvza] Yup, all quite true. The original content of my post is more pertaining to possible Dunyain motivations as seen by Kelhus with some other things thrown in just as musings. view post


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