Three Seas Forum

the archives

dusted off in read-only

  •  

The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 15 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Gregor Lux, Candidate

I was blown away by the ending of TTT and how Kellhus's true nature is beginning to show. This is definitely some of Scott's best writing.

"With me everything is rewritten, Your books, your parables, and your prayers, all that was your custom, are now nothing more than childhood curiosities. For too long the Truth languished in the vulgar hearts of Men. What you call tradition is naught but artifice, the fruit of your vanity, of your lust, of your fear and your hate.
"With me, all souls shall find a more honest footing. With me, all the world is born anew!"


Looking foward, can we have some fun and should we speculate as to what the future shall mean particularly for the religions and sorcery? I know that as Scott is busy writing The Aspect-Emperor he has all the answers but can we have a little fun speculating?

I mean should we all expect the schools and religions to interact peacefully? Will Maithenet, Iyokus, and the Quorum all become chums? Will there be any sort of resistance to Kellhus? view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 15 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I think we can certainly expect there to be a resistance to Kellhus I still think Achamian is pretty pissed off still and hes not exactly popular with a few others either. And can we expect peaceful interaction between schools and religions? Id say no unless things are changed where there are no schools or just one huge school, and I think Fanimry is pretty much done and im not really sure how many other religions there are in PoN. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 16 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Kidruhil Lancer, Auditor

And I'm fairly certain we can expect resistance (not much, but some) from the Empire, and the imperial Saik. A few random emperor's might pop up here and there... although the real question there is... Why the hell did the Consult kill the emperor? view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 16 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Exactly! I haven't been able to figure that out. They'd had it so good among the Nansur. With Kellhus ruling the "Three Seas," that only leaves Sansor, Kutnarmu, Cingulat and Nilnamesh as sovereign nations. Granted they are in the Three Seas geographically, but I don't think they operate as a part of what is commonly recognized as "The Three Seas."

The other thing I'm trying to figure out is where the Circle of Nibel is located. I'm speculating it's in the South somewhere (i.e. Cingulat, Sansor etc.). Also, I think that since the Nansur have pretty much ceased to exist as a dominant nation; the Saik may become a solitary school again and thus, not care about the goings on of the Aspect Emperor.

The question becomes, how much control does Kellhus intend to wield over the Three Seas "improper?" view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 10 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Anonymous, Subdidact

DELETED view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 13 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by glaz, Peralogue

just finished TTT. first of all, wow!!!

firstly, i noticed that throughout history, there's only one Anasurimbor beside seswatha in the past that he teaches. with Maithanet and Kellhus, we see 2 (although, Maithanet is only half).

next, we see the king, Anaxophus, being spoken to by the no-god. aside from kellhus, do we have any reference to an Anasurimbor being spoken to by the no-god?

IMO, this second apocalypse is very different from the first. same players, but a different game.

i don't think there is any Q's as to kellhus being the Harbinger. but what of akka? i got a nagging feeling that we won't see him kneeling down to kellhus in the future... view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 13 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

To some extent i think Akka will end up kneeling to Kellhus in one way or another as much as i hope he doesnt.

Even with all that has happened to him he still wants to prevent the apocalyspe or at least prepare for it and without Kellhus thats pretty much a lost cause whether he admits it or not he needs Kellhus. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 13 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by glaz, Peralogue

i also hope he doesn't...

but it seems that's the road we'll be heading to, right?

seswatha has always been with an Anasurimbor. but what bugs me is akka's last dream...

here we see Anaxophus being spoken to by the no-god, just like kellhus. does that mean we'll see a change here?

does the dream mean something, or am i just reading into it too much? view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 13 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Primal, Peralogue

Something that I have been speculating about...the visions.

We know Kellhus has been having visions; he saw the No-God as he hung dying; he saw and spoke to something as he ran towards Kyrudea(?). Someone mentioned somewhere this was alluding to Lewis(?) the trapper in the 1st book. I don't think so.

The questioning: what do you think these visions mean? Where are they coming from? Are they divine or some other sources? Kellhus may be mad too, but he is not mad in respect to the visions. They happened. They were not illusory effects of madness.

Second speculation: what happened between Kellhus and Seswatha that Seswatha allows Kellhus to attain the Gnosis? What did Kellhus say? This is in reference to a particular scene of Achamian teaching Kellhus.

Third speculation: Kellhus wept for Serwe as they hung together. Towards the end of TTT, he recollects on it thinking to himself, as if perplexed, "he had wept". What does this mean?

Fourth speculation: Do you think Kellhus knew beforehand what Achamian would do at the end of the book? He understood Achamian's fixation on Esmenet. Was this premeditated on his part? He could easily have persuaded Esmenet to go back to Achamian, and made it seem as he if had sacrificed, and so on. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 13 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

There's a Kellhus centric passage wherein he seems to be communicating with the world and it seems to be answering back. The passage begins can be found on page 289-291 in the canadian trade paperback edition.

In this passage, Kellhus can hear his name being shrieked and actively begins conversing with an entity that replies through seemingly natural phenomenon. I don't understand some of the imagery however one did stick out after rereading the book.

Kellhus seems to ask the wind, "What was I to do? Tell them the truth?" and amazingly the world answers. He finds a twig in his sandal and on it are two leaves. One green and healthy; the other brown and dead. I think this is Kellhus invisible voice telling him that he must murder his father. Seemingly Kellhus is opposed to this idea as he responds, "No, I cannot."

Of course, there might be some other explanation for this.

Any alternative suggestions or help interpreting the other images in this passage would be appreciated here


If you are referring to what Spamoram said ^ and my answer to him that he was recalling Leweth the trapper when he abandoned him in Darkness then yes i think im still right about Leweth

pg 289

Kellhus thought of snow hooded mountains, the flash of sunlight across glacial heights. He thought of deep forests and lost cities, of moss-limned statuary leaning from the humus. He thought of unmanned walls...
It seemed he could hear someone shreiking his name through frozen forest arches.
"Kellhus? Kelllhuuss!"
How far had he come?



Now after that point perhaps he was communicating with the world or the No-God or something even though i personally doubt that i think he speaks to himself or it is a part of the Thousandfold Thought but the passage above is most definitely Kellhus recalling his travel from Ishual.

The "Kelhuss? Kelllhuuss!" part ultimately i think makes me right as if you go to page 25 in Darkness Leweth says exactly that.

I could go on about other things that make me right but if anyone else disagrees with me and has good evidence to argue please post. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 14 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by glaz, Peralogue

on your 4th speculation, primal, i don't think kellhus would do that. if he did that, what would he gain? what would he get in return? his actions are so efficient that everything he does ultimately means he'll gain something for himself in return.

on another note, this is just pure speculation on my part, or some wishful thinking:

what if Kellhus is NOT the Harbinger? i re-read akka's last dream in TTT, where the no-god is speaking to anaxophus. what was akka's reaction to this? he said: "this isn't how it's supposed to be."

now, the no-god is also speaking to kellhus. if we follow what has happened before, this isn't how it's supposed to be, right?

does this mean that there must be someone else?

also, akka saw Fane's mark (the two scimitars) scrawled to his forehead. does this mean something? or am i really reading into all these too much? view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 14 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

What page was that glaz im to lazy to find it? view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 14 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by glaz, Peralogue

the mark on akka's forehead?

it's on page 398 on penguin's paperback

here's some bits of it.


"He knelt at its edge to study the reflectoin of his face. he saw that Two Scimitars had been drawn in soot or lampblack across his forehead-the work of the caregivers, he supposed. A charm or blessing of some sort.
For some reason he was loathe to wash it away, so he only rinsed his matted beard."
view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 14 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Yea, I think it was just that he was found by some Fanim and as he suspected it was probably a charm or blessing to aid in his recovery. Maybe it will have some special significance but for now I lean towards it simply being a blessing. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 15 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

I agree with EE. Its kinda odd though the more i read the books I kept getting the sense that Inrithism is a false religion and Fanimry is more religiously correct if something can be religiously correct. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 15 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by glaz, Peralogue

honestly, i feel that Fanimry is more closely related to Christianity than Inrithism.

the reason i believe this is that Fanimry is about a single God. while Inrithism focuses more on god's aspects, as if these "aspects" look more like idols and other gods. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 15 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Nah, Fanimry is pretty obviously based on Islam <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Inrithism, when you look at it, really does mirror the actual development of Christianity. The Proto-Judaic religion was actually polythiestic, Yawyeh (known by other names earlier like Eli I think) was just one God, a god of the mountain top or something if I remember correctly. Thats why if you look at the Old Testament you can still see the remnants of polyhtiesm. &quot;Worship no gods before me&quot;, etc. After all if there were no other gods, why would you need to say that?

Eventually aspects of other gods got merged in until you had full fledges Judaism, and eventually Christianity.

So take how Inrithism developed from polthiestic roots (still practiced) and how Inri Sejenus (Jesus) developed the philosophy that the gods were all merely aspects of one God, etc. There are some twists here and there of course but the essential elements and parallels are all there. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 15 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by glaz, Peralogue

i should have thought about it before posting, since the title &quot;Chricstianity&quot; is actually a loose term, since there seemed to be a couple of religions that call themselves &quot;christians&quot; even though their belief system may vary.

an example would be , say, Roman Catholicism and Protestantism (where one allows prayers offered to saints, while the other says that prayer should be said only to Yahweh.


EE, as to the statement &quot;worship no other gods befoer me,&quot; i feel that it could be said in context to the present situation of the Israelites at that time.

they have just recently got out of Egypt, where they have been slaves for hundreds of years. they may have adopted the Egyptian religion, which is polytheism. but when that commandment was written, Yahweh wanted them to return to their old belief, just like their ancestors. which is monotheism. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 16 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Yea but the core beliefs of Christian Denominations are all the same, it's pretty much just flavour and dogma that seperate them.

I think most biblical scholars who look at it historically don't think the 10 commandments and such developed exactly as it says in the bible <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> After all the historical evidence for the exodus and such is a little shaky. Remember too that it wasn't the gods of Egypt the Isrealites were making offerings too with the golden calf. I think that one might have been to Ba'al if I remember correctly, who was one of the gods in the pantheons of the regions that gave birth to the tribes of Isreal.

If I hadn't loved history so much I might have gone into history <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> All so very fascinating. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by glaz, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Entropic_existence&quot;:36zxotmc
Yea but the core beliefs of Christian Denominations are all the same, it's pretty much just flavour and dogma that seperate them.[/quote:36zxotmc]

yeah, i forgot to say that earlier. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> all Christian denominations accept the identity of one God, or Yahweh. (although i think the real Hebrew translation is JHVH)

yeah, the calf wasn't an Egyptian god, but i think it was derived (or maybe an alternative?) from Egyptian polytheism, as it is an image of an animal.

yeah, history is very fascinating. why i really enjoyed PoN a lot is that most of the words, situations and beliefs mirror our history. <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Quote: &quot;glaz&quot;:3bjymchz

yeah, the calf wasn't an Egyptian god, but i think it was derived (or maybe an alternative?) from Egyptian polytheism, as it is an image of an animal.
[/quote:3bjymchz]

The ancestors of the Jews historically were polytheistic before their time in Egypt, but this isn't really explicitly stated in the bible given it is centric to their history from a latter point, and their earlier roots are only hinted at allegorically. Polytheism was likely the de facto type of religion for the entire region. I believe the calf was actually to a Caananite god, the official stance from the bible's perspective was that the Jews, while in Egypt, slipped a little from their Covenant and fell back to their polytheistic roots or something. egypt corrupted them or something <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Of course historically we have very little evidence of the jews actually being held in bondage in Egypt and the whole story is likely a corruption or allegory for other events over a much longer period. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by anor277, Didact

It's an irony of the series that the Scylvendi, who worship Mog for unknown reasons, actually (and accurately) refer to the Inrithi as &quot;god killers&quot; - i.e. the periodic Xtian conception of the Jews. Hence the Scylvendi predation of Kyranae, Cenei, and the Nansur. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Yea it is pretty interesting. Makes you wonder when the Scylvendi, who are one of the original tribes, seperated in faith from the other tribes who prior ro Inri Sejenus were of the original cults. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by zarathustra, Peralogue

I've got vague memories from the TDTCB that they followed the same Tusk based religion as everyone else up until the Apocalypse. So perhaps Mog made them an offer they couldn't refuse. On the other hand being nomadic pastrolists this would have put them at odds with the established kingdoms at the time making them natural allies (well kind of) of the No-God. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;zarathustra&quot;:2g6cdgjy
I've got vague memories from the TDTCB that they followed the same Tusk based religion as everyone else up until the Apocalypse. So perhaps Mog made them an offer they couldn't refuse. On the other hand being nomadic pastrolists this would have put them at odds with the established kingdoms at the time making them natural allies (well kind of) of the No-God.[/quote:2g6cdgjy]

As you say, Cnaiur himself reveals in TDTCB that his people once worshipped the Tusk, before the advent of the No-God. Mind you I wonder what Cnaiur's equivalent in Mog's time said had one of his wives presented him with the 2nd still born baby - perhaps the Scylvendi managed to evade that particular plague somehow. Correcting what I said earlier, perhaps it was the Ketyai (and not the Inrithi) who were regarded by the Scylvendi as &quot;god-killers&quot;. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Its likely that the they consider both Inrithi and Ketyai both god-killers as most Ketyai are Inrithi. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 17 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Entropic_existence, Moderator

True, very true <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 18 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:2psg50m4
Its likely that the they consider both Inrithi and Ketyai both god-killers as most Ketyai are Inrithi.[/quote:2psg50m4]

I only mentioned it because I thought some smart@rse would point out that there were no Inrithi in Mog's time; well it's too late now. That the Sclyvendi neighboured the Ketyai empires, Kyranae, Cenei, etc. no doubt underpinned Scylvendi &quot;worship&quot;. view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 18 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Curethan, Didact

I think the four tribes of men who entered Earwa brought the tusk with them. Inrithi &quot;re-interperetted&quot; the tusk. The Scylvendi were one of the five tribes (one tribe stayed behind), and so obviously would have worshipped the tusk, but not Inrithism.

The nature of the tusk is very interesting to me. What is it really?
Did someone knock one of the creator-god's teeth out?

Perhaps a question for another thread.... view post


The Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools posted 18 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Aspect Emperor, Inrithism, Fanimry, and the Schools by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:38cvkcug
I think the four tribes of men who entered Earwa brought the tusk with them. Inrithi &quot;re-interperetted&quot; the tusk. The Scylvendi were one of the five tribes (one tribe stayed behind), and so obviously would have worshipped the tusk, but not Inrithism.

The nature of the tusk is very interesting to me. What is it really?
Did someone knock one of the creator-god's teeth out?

Perhaps a question for another thread....[/quote:38cvkcug]

Thats because Inrithism was a reinterpretation of the old religion by Inri Sejenus much, much later, after the second Apocalypse. The Kiunnat cults and sects were the original. view post


  •  

The Three Seas Forum archives are hosted and maintained courtesy of Jack Brown