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Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 10 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by unJon, Auditor

So this came up in the Bakker thread over on the ASOIAF board, and I never really thought about it, so I thought I'd kick it over here.

(Posted here in case TTT reading informs your opinions or responses).

In TDTCB Kellhus has a meeting with a non-man that turns out to be the ultra-famous Mekertrig.

He also gets attacked by Sranc on the way across the Scylvendi Plains and just happens to be laying close to death on the grave of Cnauir's father.

Two giant unexplained coincidences that have or will have a large impact on the plot? Anyone have any speculation? Outside forces at work? view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by H, Auditor

Well, meeting with Mekertrig could mean that where he was has some kind of importance to the Consult....

The finding of Cnaiur's father grave, could be showing us that Kellhus litterally walked in the footsteps of his father. Guided by The Logos alone, both would have followed the same path to reach the Three Seas. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

H said

The finding of Cnaiur's father grave, could be showing us that Kellhus litterally walked in the footsteps of his father. Guided by The Logos alone, both would have followed the same path to reach the Three Seas.

I agree I think he just followed his father footsteps guided by the Logos as H said, however I could also see there being some outside force influencing, Kellhus good theory. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

I'm torn with this. It seems that the Consult (who are quite involved with the Outside, correct?) have no clue as to who or what the Dunyain are (this idea comes from the very ending of TWP). So, why would the Outside know something that the Consult didn't. I guess, as unJon is suggesting, that the Outside drew Mekertrig to the area so he'd run across Kellhus and report back to the Consult that someone new and powerful had arisen?

Now, I could just be talking out of my backside, or totally misremembering the books. (It's happened before, once, twice, 1,000 times. ) <!-- s:roll: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_rolleyes.gif" alt=":roll:" title="Rolling Eyes" /><!-- s:roll: --> view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by unJon, Auditor

Hi, Xray!!! Nice to see some more ASOIAF people over here.

I think you are misremembering the connection between the Outside and the Inchoroi. The Inchoroi are waging war against the Outside in order to shut it out of Earwa so that they are not damned. The Outside represent the higher beings of Earwa (gods or God or whatever), and Kellhus might be some true prophet so that some Outside agency could take an interest in his actions.

H, I really like your idea that Kellhus and his father traversed the same path based on the Logos. However, I don't think it removes the coincidence about the Sranc attacking such that he collapses right where Cnauir would find him. I don't think the Logos can explain that. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

Quote: &quot;unJon&quot;:295b93cv
Hi, Xray!!! Nice to see some more ASOIAF people over here.

I think you are misremembering the connection between the Outside and the Inchoroi. The Inchoroi are waging war against the Outside in order to shut it out of Earwa so that they are not damned. The Outside represent the higher beings of Earwa (gods or God or whatever), and Kellhus might be some true prophet so that some Outside agency could take an interest in his actions.

[/quote:295b93cv]

I feared as much -- I haven't even started on my re-read yet (trying to blast through a ton of new books, thus don't have time). And thanks for the welcome. Looks like I am going to have to make PoN my &quot;subway&quot; read, and keep my new books for my &quot;home&quot; reads, just to get enough reading done in a short period. <!-- s:lol: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_lol.gif" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing" /><!-- s:lol: --> view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 11 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by Andrew, Peralogue

so coincidences should not happen in Earwa?

Here's a coincidence - 5 years ago i went on a 4 month university term in Mexico along with 5 other canadians. none of us knew each other when we went there. We were billeted with different mexican families. one of the canadians (call him &quot;Jim&quot;) was with a family just down the street from me. We became good friends. One day about a month after we arrived Jim was over at my place. i had a small photo album of people from home lying around. He starts flipping through it. Suddenly he says, &quot;hey, isn't this John Doe?&quot; I say, &quot;yeah John Doe is my cousin&quot;. He goes on to tell me that he used to play baseball for several years with my cousin. He goes on to tell me that the last time he saw my cousin was the previous summer out at a certain lake in Whiteshell provincial park. He was with a bunch of friends and they were basically drunk and wandering around some camping grounds. He and his friends bumped into my cousin and some of his friends. Jim's story is starting to tweak my memory. I ask if he recalls there being this hilarious German guy with my cousin. He remembers that there was some German guy with my cousin. I think about this for a second. The German guy was an exchange student living with my family at the time. I was with my cousin when we met up with that group of people. Then i say, &quot;i remember talking to some guy who had a cast on his arm&quot;. Turns out that Jim had a cast on his arm that summer. It was a dark night, and we were outdoors. Neither of us really saw the other's face so we never recognized each other when we met for the mexico trip. If I had not brought my photo album to mexico (or if Jim had never glanced at it), we would never have realized that we had spoken to each other about a year and half before that.

Point is, all sorts of crazy coincidences happen in real life. Obviously a book that relies too heavily on coincidences is not going to be taken seriously, however i don't think that 2 coincidences is all that much. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 12 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by unJon, Auditor

I don't really understand your long personal stories point, though it is an interesting coincidence.

There is something unsatisfying about Cnauir's meeting Kellhus (a fundamental moment in the book that changes everything that comes after) being sheer coincidence of the magnitude that it was. Maybe we'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think its the number of coincidences that is important so much as their magnitude. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 12 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by zarathustra, Peralogue

I'm not sure the rule on five degrees of sepeation would apply in the Three Seas. <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: -->

I think to a certian extent we'relooking at artistic license here. To be fair though Cnauir's tribe would have been the first one Kellhus would have come across. I'm not sure if it was necessary for Thousandfold Thought for Kellhus to have met Cnauir.

As for Mekeretrig check out an ealier post I made about him as I don't think he is actually a member of the Consult any more. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 12 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

Where can this post be found im curious on how you think hes not a member of the Consult any more. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 13 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by Brady, Candidate

Kellhus meeting Meketerig (sp) was a coincidence, I agree. However, Moenghus did note that, with the Thousandfold Thought, the path was extremely narrow and that he simply could not plan everything. Kellhus' encounter with the Man Traitor was one of those unplanned things.

Kellhus meeting Cnauir - not so much of a coincidence. The Utemot are the northernmost tribe on the steppe. The path between Ishual and Shimeh must cross Utemot lands at some point. And if Kellhus crosses Utemot lands, there is an excellent chance he'll be captured by Utemot tribesmen and brought before the Utemot chieftain.

The nature of the meeting - Kellhus half dead on Skiotha's barrow - was very fortuitous - but the meeting itself was something Moenghus was planning on IMO. view post


Too many coincidences unexplained? posted 14 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtToo many coincidences unexplained? by Andrew, Peralogue

Point of the long personal story was that sometimes coincidences don't need to be explained away - they just happen. It wouldn't be a realistic world if coincidences didn't happen. I dont' think Moenghus had any kind of plan for Kellus to meet Cnaiur. He may have guessed that it was likely through the probability trance but when Moenghus left the Dunyain, he had know idea that he would ever need to send someone to seek him out. He hadn't heard of the Consult or the Apocalypse or Skin Spies or sorcery or the thousand fold thought. Cnaiur's presence has nearly screwed Kellus a number of times notwithstanding that he ultimately proved useful. view post


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