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The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 22 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by Shryke, Candidate

Well there is alot of debate going on about how/why/where/etc involving the skin-spy with a soul I think we're missing the most important, and one of the most interesting questions:

Why is it even in the book?

I mean, that whole section could easily have been removed and the story, in my mind, would have lost none of it's internal logic. It doesn't seem to add anything needed for the PoN trilogy.

So, this has me wondering, why is it in there at all? I have the feeling that this may become crucial to some later part of the whole story. It seems to me to be more of a set up for something coming in the future.

My present theory is it will have something to do with our understanding of the No-God. It seems to exert complete control over the souless creations of the Inchoroi. It also seems to somehow fundamentaly lack some sort of self understanding. It's continually asking others to tell them what it is, what they see.

Could self awareness and personal identity be somehow linked to having a soul? The normal skin-spies seem to possess no identity other then what they steal from others.

Just a few thoughts I thought might be worth mulling over. view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 22 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by H, Auditor

I was thinking it had more to do with discrediting the Mandate's intentions, setting us up to better relate with Akka leaving them... view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 22 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I think it has already sort of been made clear (at least to me as I read it) that the soul is intimiately tied with self-awareness and personal identity/sense of self. The Skin-Spy with a soul, to me, has also been a demonstration of the nature of the "cycle of Souls". While many entities are inherently soulless (the skin-spies, animals, etc) there is always the possibllity of it happening (a non-souled entity having a Soul). I'm not sure if this has to happen at "birth" or if it could happen at any point in the lifespan. I keep quoting it, but as Scott has said "it is the rare animal that gains a soul." So...rare but possible. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

I think for me it was an interesting and shocking moment. It rocked some of the foundations and assumptions that had been built. You thought... what if there are more? What would happen then. view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 22 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by anor277, Didact

Quote: &quot;Shryke&quot;:2g1pgfwl
Well there is alot of debate going on about how/why/where/etc involving the skin-spy with a soul I think we're missing the most important, and one of the most interesting questions:

Why is it even in the book?

I mean, that whole section could easily have been removed and the story, in my mind, would have lost none of it's internal logic. It doesn't seem to add anything needed for the PoN trilogy.

So, this has me wondering, why is it in there at all? I have the feeling that this may become crucial to some later part of the whole story. It seems to me to be more of a set up for something coming in the future.

My present theory is it will have something to do with our understanding of the No-God. It seems to exert complete control over the souless creations of the Inchoroi. It also seems to somehow fundamentaly lack some sort of self understanding. It's continually asking others to tell them what it is, what they see.

Could self awareness and personal identity be somehow linked to having a soul? The normal skin-spies seem to possess no identity other then what they steal from others.

Just a few thoughts I thought might be worth mulling over.[/quote:2g1pgfwl]

@Shryke, I agree with you. The skin spy with a soul was not a necessity and contravened the internal logic of the novels. However, I think the most important question about the skin spy with a soul is, "What is a soul?". view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 23 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by Entropic_existence, Moderator

I still fail to see how it contradicted logic in the book, it went against individual characters perceptions and beliefs and the revelation revealed to us that those perceptions and beliefs aren't always right. This is a tactic Scott has been using throughout the novels. If you didn't enjoy that that is fine, and I can respect that. But I really can't see an argument that is contradicted or went against the logic and metaphysics of the world in any way. view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 23 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by unJon, Auditor

*nodding at EE's logic*

*smirking because EE falls into the same trap by putting too much weight on Maithenet's opinion of how abberrant a skin spy with a soul is* view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 23 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Hehehe yea I know unJon, and I am fully prepared to be proven wrong on that score. Of course there is a slight difference in that I am relying on multiple observations and logic on the same thing. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I've also posted a question on the Q&amp;A board to Scott to see if he will be willing to shed any light on it.

But like I said, if they are all souled so be it <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 24 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by Shryke, Candidate

I never said I didn't like it (I thought it was cool and completely unexpected) or that it conflicted with the book (which it didn't).

I said it didn't really NEED to be there. So the question is WHY did Scott include that scene?

I think he's setting up for an important plotline somewhere in the future. I figured we could use a thread to ask the question:

What's the purpose of that scene? What's it hinting at/leading to? view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 24 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by Dawnstorm, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Shryke&quot;:10mn517t
I said it didn't really NEED to be there. So the question is WHY did Scott include that scene?

I think he's setting up for an important plotline somewhere in the future. I figured we could use a thread to ask the question:

What's the purpose of that scene? What's it hinting at/leading to?[/quote:10mn517t]

Plotwise, it's wrapping up Achamian's Inrau story-line:

Remember the discussion between Nautzera and Simas in TDtCB, after sending Achamian to Sumna to use Inrau as an informant to spy on Maithanet? Achamian has been gathering information for the Consult! Without that scene we'd never have known that; but a lot of things appear in a different light after knowing that (how does the Consult know about Inrau? What about Maithanet's letter to Proyas about aiding Achamian? ...)

The thing about the "soul" is an interesting world-building issue; and one that makes that particular plot-element possible.

Did I overlook anything? view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 24 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by unJon, Auditor

Good points Dawn,

It also introduced to the reader that anyone can tell who a skin-spy is. By pinching their face in a certain spot.

Thematically, it continued the development of Bakker's ideas about people outgrowing their roots, by becoming more. Kellhus outgrows the Dunyain. Akka outgrows the mandate. Even a skin-spy can outgrow the limits of its creation and gain a soul. view post


The most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul posted 25 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe most important question about the Skin-Spy with a soul by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Daw, good catch I didn't even think of that but you're absolutly right for some good reasons. And of course I agree with unJohn as I think my posts make clear <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> I think it fits perfectly thematically with the world as we've seen it, and I'm a "world building whore" I could read a set of encyclopedia's about a new and interesting book world and be hooked <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


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