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Cnaiur posted 07 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Mithfânion, Didact

Some people seem to think his fate is in doubt. I guess I can see why because Scott didn't explicitly pronouce him dead, but IMO he is a dead man. In his final scene, we see that he thinks about his final swazond. This is supposedly where he kills himself, but we didn't get anyone's confirmation afterwards that he is dead.

However, when Achamian returns to Shimeh and finds mighty Kellhus coronated, he remarks that there is no Eleazaras there, no Serwe, no Conphas and no Cnaiur. I thought this was Scott's way of saying that Cnaiur is dead, since the three others mentioned are confirmed as dead.

Furthermore, Cnaiur is 45 years old now. I don't think he still has a role to play as a 65-year old Scylvendi. He'll be way, way past his prime by then, overrun by other Scylvendi if he should consider returning to them. I just don't see a point in his survival. His arc revolved all around Moenghus and his feelings for him and his refusal to admit to them. At the end, Moenghus is killed and he admits to himself that he only ever loved Moenghus. End of story. I also don't see a role for him in terms of raising his own son because the child has been renounced by him "("you are not of the People") plus Little Moenghus is generally seen as Kellhus' child by Serwe; The world doesn't know the child is Cnaiur's.

The final page with Achamian clinched any doubts I had after the scene with him and Moenghus. It just seemed definitive to me that Cniaur was mentioned there as those who were no longer with us. view post


Cnaiur posted 08 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by zarathustra, Peralogue

I don't think we are going to get any 'closure' on this judging by Scotts answer in the other section. So here is a bit of wild speculation on my part:
Cnauir's fighting prowess is preserved by the Tekne and he is charged with leading the Scylvendi into battle once again on the side of the Consult. view post


Cnaiur posted 08 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Conphas, Commoner

Cnauir's fighting prowess is preserved by the Tekne and he is charged with leading the Scylvendi into battle once again on the side of the Consult.


This is what I think will happen as well. In the first Apocalypse the Scylvendi fought with the No-God, this time around they have a Scylvendi General?

Cnaiur seemed pretty "comfortable" with the skin spies so I can see where the Consult would have a lot to offer him in addition to revenge against Kellhus. view post


Cnaiur posted 17 February 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Shryke, Candidate

At the end, it always seemed to me that he went with the Consult. His last thoughts are about the Skin Spy pretending to be Serwe.

Plus, the Consult seems very aware at this point of the fact that only Cnaiur seems to understand the Dunyain. I think they will have done there best to save and use him. I see him returning as the Consult General, as we already know he's highly intelligent and has n extremely good grasp of tactics. view post


Cnaiur posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

Now, now.
Cnaiur appears to be the most overlooked character on these forums. It's surprising to me to see that there is speculation that TTT was his "swazond-song"(hehe).
In my estimationhe gets almost as much narrative devoted to him as Akka, which in itself should tell you something. His character is one to which Scott has devoted a lot of thought to creating, because his actions require a convoluted and deep study to understand. Although he is responsible for many horrid acts, these are largely premeditated by his "darkness that comes before" and his attempts to reconcile his personality to it, giving rise to his insanity. However, of all the characters in the entire series, he is also one of the few who performs/attempts selfless acts to aid others, although he refuses to aknowledge them. Furthermore his role saving Kellhus in the circumfixion underpins his role as a key device in the series.
His relationship to both the consult and Kellhus is doubly interesting as he is "outside" their control, yet used/using both.
And as for him being too old for the next volume, the glossary clearly states the inchoroi's ability to grant "immortality". view post


Cnaiur posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by nvyxxus_negus, Commoner

i agree w/Curethan. Through it all, Cnaiur has definitely stood apart -again, 'outside' other characters' reasoning and motives. he has his own motivation, walks his own path. ok; it may be madness drawn from suffering and denial, it may be pure hate, but it is HIS hate, his madness. he talks about Moenghus leading him into an uncharted path -off the beaten track, so to speak. (but why did Moenghus do it? and is kellhus like his dad, then- also leading ppl 'offroad?' if so, why? don't tell me it is all about this 'Absolute!' Humbug!) you have to kind of admire that inability to be swayed that Cnaiur has. i admit i've wished to see him succeed from the end of TDTCB -except to kill kellhus -there were still too many ambiguities there; too much mystery. (have you noticed that there are several characters who have stressed this type of self-awareness: they are their OWN, their motives are their OWN, etc.? achamian seems the same, and on occasion, esmenet ...) view post


Cnaiur posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

i think his final swazond was for killing moengus. that was pretty much his only aim for all his life. i don;t believe he's dead. view post


Cnaiur posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Spamoram, Candidate

I noticed the glossary lists Cnaiur and Anissi's daughter. I can't remember the name right now but I don't recall the daughter being mentioned anywhere else in the series.

Possible teaser for The Aspect Emperor? view post


Cnaiur posted 30 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by stormchaser, Candidate

I tend to agree with those who feel we haven't seen the last of Cnaiur, for the reasons given. IIRC, throughout the trilogy there are hints and occasional outright statements (don't ask me to find them, though) to the effect that Cnaiur is "special" and "important" and "not what he seems," etc. To fall back on what has become a cliched and much maligned analogy, Cnaiur is PON's Gollum figure, and as such he has a part to play right up until the end. Yes, I can definitely see him in the role of a Consult general. I can also see him defecting back to the forces of "good", such as they are. In practical terms, he's just too good a character to throw away. We'll just have to wait and see if he makes it into TAE. view post


Cnaiur posted 31 March 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

I believe that all of the main characters will return. Throughout the three books, the three main povs have followed the focal point of Kellhus, who is never properly defined as a character, but remains a fasinating plot device. He is the crucible through which they have come to be the characters required for the events of the major story arc, imo.
Cnair is the most interesting of these characters because he stands closest to Kellhus' id and is yet his most adverserial. After all from Kellhus' admittedly diminutive emotional perspective, (which is never enlarged upon) he has always told truth.
And the "miracle" of the circumfixion was dependant on Cnaiur's intervention, I seem to remember Kelhus ruminating that the reigns had slipped his fingers at that point.
Several times Kellhus says, "I should have killed him..." and yet he does not... I think that Cnaiur has become Kellhus' "proof", hehe. view post


Cnaiur posted 01 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by dalamar the dark, Commoner

Cnaiur is definetly not dead he is just too developed and pivotal to the plotline to simply accomplish his goal and then die peacefully he at least has to take some people with him view post


Cnaiur posted 14 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by FAU5TU5, Commoner

I am curious, as Cnaiur was IMHO the most interesting of all characthers to read, why if there is more of this story to be told, how he could simply vanish...

Rather I agree with the irony of "The People" having fought on the side of the Consult being too in tune with history repeating itself not to come into play.

And as one person mentioned that Cnaiur was very at ease with the skinspies indead and I could very easily see one of the Consult being present to talk him out of his death..

Plus the Consult are all but "Ageless" and gave the Secret to banishing death to others before, and more than dabble in the necromancing arts,.. so even if Cnaiur did kill himself.. who is to say that if the Consult want him back... they wont just bring him back.. (or at least some of him)...

Too much open there to write off such a rich charachter so easy to empathize with and connect with on certain levels.

Not to mention, after whatever may have happened in "THAT GODDAMN WHORE's" sorry, belly after the consult bed her while pregnant,.. who can guarantee that Cnaiur's son who most think Khellus' wont be needed by Khellus if something is amis with his own.. (For political reasons etc.)

Just thoughts. view post


Cnaiur posted 20 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

what about his 'final swazond'? Pride and Shame! If Cnaiur is Scylvendi, then Cnaiur is dead. view post


Cnaiur posted 20 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

He's probably just run out of room. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Or perhaps it marks and important (and final) break with his people/culture. Moenghus' death would be a major event emotionally for Cnaiur - remember he loved him at least as much as he hated him. Moenghus was a lot of things to Cnaiur, mentor, father figure, lover etc. view post


Cnaiur posted 20 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

Quote: &quot;avatar_of_existence&quot;:ni1hlm83
what about his 'final swazond'? Pride and Shame! If Cnaiur is Scylvendi, then Cnaiur is dead.[/quote:ni1hlm83]

Cnaiur isn't Scylvendi anymore. He is free, remember. There is no thought he cannot think, no act he will not commit. He, much like Kellhus to the Three Seas, is beyond our ability to predict. He is conditionally unconditioned; a self moving soul. The product of extensive Dunyain exposure and insanity. How beautifully ironic that he's accomplished what the Dunyain have been trying to for millenia. view post


Cnaiur posted 20 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Entropic_existence, Moderator

Cnaiur is definitly free to a large extent but he hasn;t yet achieved Self Moving Soul status. He has broken free from the bonds of his people and as he puts it &quot;walks the trackless steppe&quot; but he still has motivating influences (Moenghus was one for one). He's definitly bad ass and very cool in his madness. view post


Cnaiur posted 22 April 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by StegoKing, Candidate

I believe Cnauir is just too damn amazing to die. There's something wonderful about a homosexual Conan with the intelligence of Ender Wiggin. view post


Cnaiur posted 31 May 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by coobek, Candidate

I agree with the recent posts on this subject. I think that Cnauir is to developed character to simply vanish. I also think that he is maybe the only living human to match Kellhus (apart maybe from Achamian/Seswatha) and he will occupy most pages in the future book (AE). Maybe he will become incarnation of dead Scylvendi God. Who knows. view post


Cnaiur posted 31 May 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Zadok, Candidate

I believe Scott has as much as said in one of the Q&amp;A threads about Cnaiur that he is dead. Aside from that I don't see how someone as crazy as Cnaiur could go on after finally achieving the goal that he had been obsessing about for most of his life, that he never thought he would actually accomplish. I think the completed the arc of his character perfectly.

Of course we may &quot;see&quot; him as a skin spy ala Serwe, but that won't really be Cnaiur. view post


Cnaiur posted 31 May 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Warrior-Poet, Moderator

coobek said

I agree with the recent posts on this subject. I think that Cnauir is to developed character to simply vanish. I also think that he is maybe the only living human to match Kellhus (apart maybe from Achamian/Seswatha) and he will occupy most pages in the future book (AE). Maybe he will become incarnation of dead Scylvendi God. Who knows


Just for future references the Scylvendi's god is the No-God thats why they call their god the Dead God, so if your trying to say you think Cnaiur will become the No-God i doubt it. view post


Cnaiur posted 01 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Virus, Candidate

Cnaiur is Gilgaol lol, view post


Cnaiur posted 06 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Curethan, Didact

Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:1qxgw0ug


Just for future references the Scylvendi's god is the No-God thats why they call their god the Dead God, so if your trying to say you think Cnaiur will become the No-God i doubt it.[/quote:1qxgw0ug]

He is? I thought so .... but has this been confirmed? view post


Cnaiur posted 06 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

He was joking. Although I think Gilgoal (sp?) should be replaced with Cnaiur when the barbarian dies. The G-man couldn't possibly have been as bad-ass as the Utemot Chieftan. view post


Cnaiur posted 06 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Murrin, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Curethan&quot;:20i72b7v
Quote: &quot;Warrior-Poet&quot;:20i72b7v


Just for future references the Scylvendi's god is the No-God thats why they call their god the Dead God, so if your trying to say you think Cnaiur will become the No-God i doubt it.[/quote:20i72b7v]

He is? I thought so .... but has this been confirmed?[/quote:20i72b7v]
Unusual: Under &quot;Lokung&quot; (the Dead God) in the glossary it says &quot;see No-God&quot;, but under No-God it doesn't mention Lokung or the Scylvendi.
In fact, I noticed there was a distinct lack of Scylvendi in the Encyclopaedic Glossary as a whole. The entry on them is brief and unilluminating, they are mentioned only briefly under &quot;Apocalypse&quot;; I think Scott has gone out of his way to avoid giving us any more information on the Scylvendi and their relationship to the Consult. Suggests it's spoiler material. view post


Cnaiur posted 06 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

Quote: &quot;Murrin&quot;:1zt75gjx
I think Scott has gone out of his way to avoid giving us any more information on the Scylvendi and their relationship to the Consult. Suggests it's spoiler material.[/quote:1zt75gjx]

Perhaps The Book That Cannot Be Named is, in fact, titled New Earwa Order: Scylvendi Rising. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


Cnaiur posted 07 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Mahajanga Mordecai, Auditor

There is also the fact that the glossary is the work of Achamian whose knowledge of the Scylvendi is limited to historical accounts of their involvement in the Apocalypse. Outside of that he knows little about the Steepe, much like the rest of the Three Seas... sans the Nansur and the northern Kianene. view post


Cnaiur posted 07 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Dragyn, Commoner

Even if the &quot;final swazond&quot; Cnaiur made was to slit his own throat, what would stop the Consult from bringing him back as a skin-spy or some other Tekne creation? We already know they have amazing physical speed/power, so wouldn't that plus Cnaiur's natural abilities combine to form someone definitely fit to be a Consult General?

Also, since Moenghus was what was basically Cnaiur's sole motivation, by killing him wouldn't Cnaiur become a &quot;self-moving soul&quot;? It's more likely the trauma and confusion would stay with and motivate him beyond Moenghus' death, but I like to think there'll be somebody out there to foil Kellhus' plans... view post


Cnaiur posted 07 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by Xray the Enforcer, Auditor

Quote: &quot;Mahajanga Mordecai&quot;:y3azb19u
There is also the fact that the glossary is the work of Achamian whose knowledge of the Scylvendi is limited to historical accounts of their involvement in the Apocalypse.[/quote:y3azb19u]

Conspiracy theory killjoy. Always using logic and facts to bust up a heady surmise. <!-- s:P --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_razz.gif" alt=":P" title="Razz" /><!-- s:P --> view post


Cnaiur posted 07 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by sunnKHANN, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Dragyn&quot;:1t3f5y4g
Even if the &quot;final swazond&quot; Cnaiur made was to slit his own throat, what would stop the Consult from bringing him back as a skin-spy or some other Tekne creation? We already know they have amazing physical speed/power, so wouldn't that plus Cnaiur's natural abilities combine to form someone definitely fit to be a Consult General?

Also, since Moenghus was what was basically Cnaiur's sole motivation, by killing him wouldn't Cnaiur become a &quot;self-moving soul&quot;? It's more likely the trauma and confusion would stay with and motivate him beyond Moenghus' death, but I like to think there'll be somebody out there to foil Kellhus' plans...[/quote:1t3f5y4g]

Just finished 'TTT', and I was wondering about Cnaioor myself. Throughout the books, he was one of those characters that just grabbed my attention, and an interesting foil to Kellhus. I wouldn't say I liked him; I pitied him, and I thought he was one of the best written characters, the depths of his madness being believable and thankfully not characitured.

I believe we will see him again, perhaps ressurected as some Consult savant. Now that he is without a point of reference and has surrendered all sanity and care, I think he'd be a perfect general for the uncaring No-God... view post


Cnaiur posted 07 June 2006 in The Thousandfold ThoughtCnaiur by anor277, Didact

Just on the topic of Cnaiur. While I agree he is a brilliantly written, original character - a mad, ballbreaking bull fag - I think it's a bit hard to accept that he will be revived. Why should the Consult do it? He has knowledge (some) of Kellhus and Moenghus, but then so did Serwe and Esmenet and Achamian - Achamian might even give the Consult that knowledge gratis now. As a warrior, Cnaiur was prodigious, but as a general Skauras tricked him beautifully and his only value to Kellhus was to teach him warfare, and Kellhus rapidly assimiliated Cnaiur's knowledge and surpassed his teacher. So I don't think there is much percentage in giving Cnaiur a Consult army, even if the Consult can preserve him. view post


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