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Dunyain machinations posted 25 January 2010 in The Judging EyeDunyain machinations by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

There is much talk of more dunyain entering the scene and while its starting to look like that will be the case I can't help but wonder how difficult the series will become to write if there are several dunyan interacting. Bakker said that it's really hard to write for Kellhus in that youtube interview, and so writing for several 'kelluhses' interacting and likely even competing would be insane. I mean, I'd love to see it but it might be too much for even our venerable and much-loved author. view post


Is Kellus insane or not posted 25 January 2010 in The Judging EyeIs Kellus insane or not by avatar_of_existence, Peralogue

This begs the question: is it insane to 'shut the world off from the outside' if you are damned, or is it insane not to? Kellhus seems to have chosen to save mankind over his own soul, but why? Is it love? Is that what his father meant when he tells Kellhus that he's been broken by the wilderness? Isn't Kellhus literally hearing the voice of god in his head? Perhaps going beyond the logos, beyond the thousandfold thought, can only result in insanity. What I don't get is his motivation, I can't see exactly what lead him to decide to save the world (other than belief that he is the prophet). . .and then again maybe he is really trying to destroy it, you can never tell with that guy.

More importantly the Celmomian prophecy states that an Anasaurimbor will return at the end of the world. That doesn't seem to be the case with Earwa as the consult hasn't been seen in forever and there is relative peace. Again, maybe Kellhus is really leading a giant sacrifice to the Incu-Holoinas to seal the world from the outside. view post


Is Kellus insane or not posted 07 February 2010 in The Judging EyeIs Kellus insane or not by Madness, Peralogue

I can't help but poke in here and throw down some thoughts. Specifically to Will's question though I think some of my points will bend towards Thorsten's explanation of Bakker's reality. If I have time one day, I think I may come back and rebuttal Thorsten.

Anyhow, what are Kellhus' goals? I think the debate here is missing some key thought evolution.

Firstly, I believe first and foremost that Kellhus remains Dunyain. I often wished that he would become more human and use his actions for good but my hope from Bakker is that the broken spiteful Wizard gets to save the day.

What can we assume from this? Well, I think Thorsten and Bakker have laid out some spectacular ground work for a war over the World Soul or the God, etc, between the Consult and divided humanity. Perhaps, however, in between humanity and reality's Omega Point there lies the realms of individual's with possessing power like Kellhus', entities who exact measures of belief from the World, i.e. the Gods. I think this might imply some things about the White-Luck Warrior, a being who perceived reality bends to, based on the belief Yatwer holds. So then, plainly spoke, I think Kellhus' seeks to understand the Tekne, his last real remaining unknown in Earwa and become a God. This would be in line with the epic prose and Dunyain mechanisms.

Consequently, this fits into some of my other theories that the Judging Eye has raised for me culminating the Prince of Nothing. Though, I fully believe that Bakker will surprise me, I just like guessing. Trying to out think an author who inspired me most.

I believe Achamian will somehow become Seswatha during the events of the First Apocalypse. Through his dreams or perhaps even Kellhus' hypnotism Achamian will make this jump. I think this is most alluded to in Achamian's Choice to be or not to be Seswatha above Sauglish (I think it's Sauglish? He keeps asking This isn't how it happens, where is Seswatha?, as well as comments on the fact that Seswatha was mysteriously absent in his perspective) and little Nau-Cayuti's question, who is Mimira? I think the events in the Judging Eye culminate in Kellhus betraying the Great Ordeal after he joins the Consult and becomes the No-God in the First Apocalypse.

And then presto, third trilogy or duology, what have you, is the FIRST APOCALYPSE! A nice bow-tied time-paradox lol. view post


Is Kellus insane or not posted 08 February 2010 in The Judging EyeIs Kellus insane or not by coobek, Candidate

Quote: "Madness":ud4yjrsx
... I think Kellhus' seeks to understand the Tekne, his last real remaining unknown in Earwa and become a God. This would be in line with the epic prose and Dunyain mechanisms...

.... I think the events in the Judging Eye culminate in Kellhus betraying the Great Ordeal after he joins the Consult and becomes the No-God in the First Apocalypse.

And then presto, third trilogy or duology, what have you, is the FIRST APOCALYPSE! A nice bow-tied time-paradox lol.[/quote:ud4yjrsx]

I also have a thought of Tekne as a goal for Kelhus, since this is the only unknown.

<!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: --> <!-- s:shock: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_eek.gif" alt=":shock:" title="Shocked" /><!-- s:shock: -->

But the last idea is shocking and briliant as well. Would never thought of such a twist. Great idea. view post


Incariol, what does it mean? posted 11 February 2010 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Nerdanel, Peralogue

One possible way to ravel Incariol is as Inc-cara-iol where &quot;-iol&quot; is not &quot;hall&quot; but some sort of suffix commonly found in mansion names. (&quot;Or&quot; or &quot;ori&quot; would be hall.) Of?

Perhaps Incariol means &quot;Of Sky/Heaven/Emptiness Angel&quot; or something to that effect, but Achamian isn't suspicious because the name is vague enough that it could refer to a lot of things. (My guess is that it refers to serving the No-God.) view post


Celmomian Prophesy, Seswatha Dreams, and the &quot;Present&quot; posted 11 February 2010 in The Judging EyeCelmomian Prophesy, Seswatha Dreams, and the &quot;Present&quot; by Nerdanel, Peralogue

My theory is that the dreams about Seswatha's mundane life are FAKE and sent through sorcery from the present in order to send Achamian to Ishuäl without making him suspicious. I think the dreams were sent by Mekeritrig (a.k.a. Cleric) who remembered enough of the time of Seswatha to create an illusion of history good enough to fool Achamian and who had been in his long life at the location of Achamian's tower. Perhaps he even killed its original inhabitants.

Remember that Cleric was the one to introduce the Sohonc Coffers to the Skin Eaters. That particular &quot;idle conversation&quot; turned out to be crucial for getting the Skin Eaters go on such a dangerous quest. As it was, half of them declined even despite the rumored treasure.

As for Mimara, she was sent by Kelmomas at the behest of his secret voice. I think Cleric isn't the voice, but working together with it. I think the voice is the No-God's and Cleric serves him. I think the No-God, being the more powerful demon god, intervened at the end to free Cleric from Hell.

And yes, I think Cleric did stop during the fighting when he was &quot;lost&quot; in the tunnels to send a dream to the unconscious Achamian. Plausible deniability! Achamian had already seen him crouching over him when he had one of his Ishuäl dreams. If that had happened again, Achamian could start to suspect that Cleric was doing something more than just looking at him and hoping to see him suffer from nightmares. view post


*Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 11 February 2010 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I think the traveler was an agent of the empire, sent either by Kellhus or by Esmenet. I think the Skin Eaters were to wait in the town for Achamian and were told to protect Achamian and Mimara, which is why they carried them instead of leaving them behind, thus breaking their own Rules of the Slog. I think Kosoter was approached because he is a long-time follower of Kellhus's and has proven his loyalty and bravery. view post


Spoiler: Kelmonas' Voice posted 12 February 2010 in The Judging EyeSpoiler: Kelmonas' Voice by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I think the secret voice is the No-God pretending to be Samarmas in order to manipulate Kelmomas to do its bidding. The voice is very intelligent and sounds too mature and knowledgeable even for a half-Dûnyain child. view post


Celmomian Prophesy, Seswatha Dreams, and the &quot;Present&quot; posted 26 February 2010 in The Judging EyeCelmomian Prophesy, Seswatha Dreams, and the &quot;Present&quot; by Callan S., Auditor

I think as Akka starts to think he's Seswatha, so he becomes that. Much in the way Bakker likes to describe so how you act is eventually how you become.

As he becomes more Seswatha, more memories are compatable with him and so can be remembered.

But that hypnotism bit...Kellhus could have left all sorts of viruses and malware, so to speak, during that 'unknown permissions' bit. So it could all be simply following the steps of a programmed sleeper agent - though the throneroom scene just doesn't seem efficient somehow, with Akka denouncing him as emporer. So Akka still seems somewhat of a rogue variable rather than a fully controlled variable. view post


Dunyain machinations posted 02 March 2010 in The Judging EyeDunyain machinations by Jerako, Candidate

I am of the opinion that Kellhus was -not- sent to kill Moenghus. That simply became his objective, as he learned more. One of Kellhus' first thoughts after leaving Ishual (when there was nobody around to decieve yet, so I doubt he's lying) was: I shall dwell in my father's house.

Odd thing, if he was truly sent to assassinate him.


EDIT: To clarify, Kellhus was sent to appease Mo, so that he'd stop harrassing them, then they killed all those Mo could contact. view post


Is Kellus insane or not posted 02 March 2010 in The Judging EyeIs Kellus insane or not by Jerako, Candidate

The haloes are proof that he's delusional, not that he is in fact a prophet. Recall when Serwe was getting raped by the skin-spy posing as Kellhus. She still saw the haloed hands.

This series is largely based on the subjectivity of mass opinions though. The question of whether Kellhus is in fact insane, or not, is determined largely by mass belief. Not only in that insanity is largely defined as a deviation from the &quot;normal&quot; state of mind, but that in this series, belief, especially mass belief, truly affects reality. view post


Still active posted 23 March 2010 in Off-Topic DiscussionStill active by gierra, Sorcerer-of-Rank

oh i just thought i would pop in out of the shadows, like i am wont to do. view post


Sorcery and its parallels in our world posted 28 March 2010 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSorcery and its parallels in our world by Madness, Peralogue

While I like your head spaces, wouldn't the utteral and innutteral refer more to how we use our own language to communicate; the utteral specifically speech and the innutteral specifically the internal thoughts which can accompany spoken meanings. Don't our innutterals change the very definition and meaning of our utterals? I think this is the ethereal phenomenon Bakker is playing off of. I think he's mentioned in interviews that the sorcerer is simply supposed to be an ongoing metaphor for the phenomenon of language itself. view post


Brief synopsis of The White-Luck Warrior posted 31 March 2010 in The Judging EyeBrief synopsis of The White-Luck Warrior by Madness, Peralogue

This shit is EPIC!:

As Anasûrimbor Kellhus and his Great Ordeal march ever farther into the perilous wastes of the Ancient North, Esmenet finds herself at war with not only the Gods, but her own family as well. Achamian, meanwhile, leads his own ragtag expedition to the legendary ruins of Sauglish, and to a truth he can scarce survive, let alone comprehend. Into this tumult walks the White-Luck Warrior, assassin and messiah both, executing a mission as old as the World’s making …

The White-Luck Warrior is a story filled with heart-stopping action, devious treachery, grand passion and meticulous detail. It is both a classic quest tale and a high fantasy war story.

Amazon.co.uk and Amazon.ca now both have The White-Luck Warrior listed as Mar 3 2011. Can't wait. Disciple of the Dog is listed as Sep 16 2010 (Finger's crossed for this b-day present) or Sep 1 2011 <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( -->. Peace. view post


Sorcery and its parallels in our world posted 01 April 2010 in The Thousandfold ThoughtSorcery and its parallels in our world by Athjeari, Peralogue

Madness,

That is precisely the point! The inutteral could be seen as what Plato referred to as &quot;the Form&quot; (antirealist), or what Aristotle called the &quot;Universal&quot; (realist)
I think that the fact that the schoolmen are able to reek havoc by understanding inutterals gives credence to the argument that they are master communicators and have developed a God like understanding of language. One could then say that the schoolmen are the most skilled of orators, and master rhetoricians because they are able to understand the &quot;Form&quot;, or &quot;Universal&quot; of the actual word.

If you want to get into the linguistic philosophy we can delve into that because I am a huge fan! view post


Your First Time posted 14 April 2010 in Off-Topic DiscussionYour First Time by Trinket, Candidate

The Curse of Chalion, by Lois McMaster Bujold.
This is the first book I read that instantly became my favourite. I don't have a copy anymore but I'm sure I will again someday. view post


Scott has a blog! posted 21 June 2010 in General DiscusssionScott has a blog! by lfex, Peralogue

Scott has now a blog here:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://rsbakker.wordpress.com/">http://rsbakker.wordpress.com/</a><!-- m -->

Apparently nobody noticed it until today <!-- s:wink: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=":wink:" title="Wink" /><!-- s:wink: --> view post


PoN/AE inspired art? posted 26 June 2010 in Off-Topic DiscussionPoN/AE inspired art? by Riardd Ambrosius, Commoner

Hey, how far are you now with your drawings?

I've been dying to see some fanart!

Looking forward to seeing your work!

Best Regards view post


PoN/AE inspired art? posted 03 September 2010 in Off-Topic DiscussionPoN/AE inspired art? by Madness, Peralogue

There is, maybe now was, a link to a fantastic rendition of a Skin-Spy posted here on the forum. It was done by an anonymous artist who posted it on DeviantART. You could search the forum for it? view post


White-Luck Warrior posted 25 September 2010 in The Judging EyeWhite-Luck Warrior by Ironsoul, Commoner

Yo dudes..hasn't anybody else realised that Cnaiur is the White-Luck Warrior?

Regards,
Ironsoul view post


White-Luck Warrior posted 28 September 2010 in The Judging EyeWhite-Luck Warrior by Karol, Commoner

Huh! I never even thought of it that way! I did like how Bakker left it open at the end as to whether or not Cnaiur survived; I was rather of the opinion that he did. view post


White-Luck Warrior posted 02 October 2010 in The Judging EyeWhite-Luck Warrior by Ironsoul, Commoner

Was hoping for more feedback but there you go. Anyway, i reckon Cnaiur did actually die but somehow he has been brought back to life in the body of this young man who was with his wife and daughter. My reason for first of all, believing that the young man has been possessed is the reaction of his wife. She immediately begins to question him, asking if he is okay. We then hear her thoughts, &quot;You look like you're dreaming&quot; and &quot;Wake up please! You're scaring me!&quot; in a trance-like state he ignores her and even shoves her arm out of the way. For me that's pretty good evidence that the young man is no longer himself and would suggest possession.
Now i believe that whoever is possessing the young man is somebody who once lived because of the way Bakker continually writes, &quot;A life lived, now forgotten. And in it's place...&quot; Indictates to me that someone or something has come back to life.
As a side note, the young man is the descendant of a Scylvendi marauder. Now obviously thats pretty circumstantial evidence but nevertheless it is another connection to Cnaiur and there was no need for Bakker to include the information other than for that reason.
Moving through the story, when the young man meets Psatma he says, &quot;I am the White-Luck...I walk. I breathe.&quot; Now this man has not lived his whole life knowing he is the White-Luck. IMO, someone has possessed him who knows he himself is the White-Luck. Furthermore, this person appears to have lived before as he seems surprised that he can once more walk and breathe.

As to why i think the person is Cnauir...Psatma describes the two of them as siblings..and Psatma is described as &quot;a soul, wrought of iron and cruelty.&quot; And &quot;hers was the grinding hatred, the homicidal outrage of the betrayed, the unwavering fury of the degraded and the dispossessed&quot; Remind you of anyone?
Before Psatma and the young man have sex, his body is described as the body of a man newly wed, slender, golden for the perfection of its skin. Indeed, it is &quot;not yet strong.&quot;
Then when he climaxes her strength fills him and certain things happen.
&quot;the knitting of muscle across his frame. the scarring&quot;-the young mans body is maturing and becoming strong, and what's more it is gaining scars that that the person bore in his past life. Now who has more scars than Cnauir with his swazond?
&quot;hands that clawed her chest beame horned with callusses, thick with throttling strength.&quot;-again who was blessed with such throttling stregth? Cnaiur, and it's the way Bakker tended to describe Cnauir. So why would he describe this character so if not to indicate that it is in actual fact Cnauir returning to life?
Cnauir is a massive fave of mine and i would love to see his return. Even better is to see that he won't be in these books as a 60 odd year old man or as an ageless general forr the No Gods armies, cos while Cnaiur wasn't a good guy he wasn't truly evil. At least i don't think so. Just a tad confused!
Anyway i'm pretty bored now so i'm gonna finish
Regards,
Ironsoul

Some people dream of success. Others wake up and work hard for it. view post


White-Luck Warrior posted 08 October 2010 in The Judging EyeWhite-Luck Warrior by Ironsoul, Commoner

87 views and not one single reply? Come on guys i didn't post my ideas for the craic of it. it's not how I get off. Talk to me and tell me if you agree/disagree and what's your reason for doing so.

Regards
Ironsoul view post


White-Luck Warrior posted 14 October 2010 in The Judging EyeWhite-Luck Warrior by Athjeari, Peralogue

Oh! Finally some more action on this board!

Alright, while I think it would be cool if Cnaiur did come back, he was a favorite of mine as well, especially if he wasn't 60 years old, I do think you might have a hard time figuring out why Cnaiur would be resurrected by Yatwer.

Cnaiur did not worship the Gods of the Thousand Temples, instead Cnaiur worshipped the No-God, so what might be the reasoning for Yatwer to bring him back to life?

Good theory, I like the descriptions idea, but unless Bakker has a good, sound explanation for Cnaiur becoming a tool for Yatwer, I don't know if I can buy it. view post


White-Luck Warrior posted 15 October 2010 in The Judging EyeWhite-Luck Warrior by Madness, Peralogue

Lol, only because you asked Ironsoul.

I have to disagree though. Unfortunately, I believe Cnaiur, Moenghus, and their plot arcs are finished. I was really at a loss for much of the Yatwerian plot lines in TJE, felt they were somewhat vague, and I realistically think that Bakker's trying to achieve some fictive device deliberately.

The White-Luck Warrior is someone new, represents something new in the story. I particularly find one of the chapter openers illuminating. The idea that White-Luck is like an antithesis to Dunyain causality - I apologize, I'd like to quote it but the book is not on me and I'm distracting myself from the pointless, endless, school reading - essentially, whereas the Dunyain calculate, take circumstance by force, the embodiment of White-Luck is just there, ordained always to be at the right place at the right time.

I'll come back tomorrow and get more indepth.

Peace. view post


White-Luck Warrior posted 06 November 2010 in The Judging EyeWhite-Luck Warrior by Ironsoul, Commoner

Yo

Athjeari, I think it's pretty fair to say that Cnaiur worshipped nobody. By the end of the 3rd book he had forsaken all aspects of the Scylvendi way of life. And remember that Sorweel was not a follower of Yatwer, but that din't prevent him from coming under her protection and stopping Kellhus from reading his face.

And Madness, I don't think you made any actual arguments. You merely stated what u thought and didn't back it up. So what?

Up yours,
Ironsoul view post


'Twas the Night Before Second Apocalypse posted 26 December 2010 in General Discusssion'Twas the Night Before Second Apocalypse by Sil-Inchor, Commoner

Twas just after the womb-plague
And all through the manse
Not a Nonman was stirring
Not even their prince.
The chorae were hung
By the chimney with care
In hopes that the Carapace
Soon would be there.

The sranc were all nestled
Up snug in their beds
Visions of obscenity
Dancing in their heads
When up on Earwa
There arose such a clatter
The violent arrival
Of Man’s Darkest Hour

Away to the windows
The Mandate did fly
They threw open the shutters
Light poured from their eyes
And what did their dream-blearied orbs
There perceive
But a towering storm shouting
WHAT DO YOU SEE?
With a nimil sarcophagus
So shiny and dread
They knew that slain Lokung
Was no longer Dead.

More rapid than eagles
The Consult they came
And He bellowed and gibbered
And screamed out their names

ON SKAFRA, ON GLORTMUND, ON HALGYS AND AURAX
ON BLODMYR, ON THREKLA, ON LYRNYR AND AURANG

TO THE NAIL HIGH IN HEAVEN
TO THE GODS THERE OUTSIDE
ON WRACU, ON BASHRAG, TO RUIN WE RIDE

So up to the skies
His legions they flew
Man-Traitors and skin-spies
The last Inchoroi, too

The Mandate, despairing
Could not stay aloof
They burned in the fires
Of the great Mog-Pharau

The Men of the Three Seas
Were soon overthrown
Their hearthstones all cracked
And their great kings dethroned
The Shriah was headless
The Emperor dead.
‘Twas the Second Apocalypse
The prophets all said

But remember, dear children
That though the No-God would fell us
If things really turn ugly
We can all trust in Kellhus view post


Sarl posted 03 February 2011 in The Judging EyeSarl by Gothmog, Commoner

I disagree with Sarl being a skinspy.

Most definitely an unbalanced character, whose only hinge seems to be the Captain.
The essence of his disorderly facial expressions seemed to condense in one description - &quot;even while his expressions were correct, the underlying passions were all wrong&quot; - it's not an exact quote, but close enough. Also, a lot of the time he's the agressive angry hound dogging someone, i rather think sustaining that much anger for so long isn't in the domain of sane people.

He becomes only more interesting after the Slog of all slogs. Despite his insistent upholding of Rules of the Slog, they most definitely shatter and are discarded in the madness of Cil-Aujas. Remember all the help the unconcious Achamian and also Mimara received. Sarl became a weeper.
More than that, after escape from the depths, there's high chance of him possessing the eye in his heart, such as Achamian found on the surviving weeper they found inside.

Seemingly, no one is in a hurry to enforce Rules of the slog anymore, so this gives us a good starting point for speculations as to what happens to him now. view post


Dunyain machinations posted 04 February 2011 in The Judging EyeDunyain machinations by Gothmog, Commoner

@anor277

Perhaps, of course the Dunyain subsequently turned off all of the other individuals within Ishual capable of receiving Moenghus' dreams (i.e. all of them potential sorcerors).

This is misleading. In fact, they terminated all the people that knew Moenghus from before he set out of Ishual, not all sorcerers. Whether only the people who knew him and were sorcerers received the dream is questionable. Gnostic and Imperial sorcerous communication at least (likely all known) seem to function sorcerer-to-sorcerer only. Psukhe, however as we all know, functions fundamentaly different. It's ability to alter the world without decay suggests the possibility of sorcerer-to-normal person communication. This is assuming Kellhus' decription of the Few to Achamian in TTT is correct.


The whole Dunyain seclusion is somewhat conflictional. On one hand, they have indesputable firsthand accounts and evidence of the First Apocalypse happening (or ending) at the time they started living in Ishual and bred Anasurimbor blood to them. I think it fair to say that Celmomas and Seswatha knew nothing of Dunyain being in Ishual. If i recall correctly, the whole fortress, except the bastard Anasurimbor child was slaughtered before the arrival of the enigmatic Dunyain. Whence they came is unexplained, but it would have to be pretty damn isolated for them not to know of First Apocalypse as well as existance of sorcery. Had they known of either, i can't imagine they would live in isolation as they do, even if select few at the top of their hierarchy knew of it.


I am of the opinion that Kellhus was -not- sent to kill Moenghus. That simply became his objective, as he learned more. One of Kellhus' first thoughts after leaving Ishual (when there was nobody around to decieve yet, so I doubt he's lying) was: I shall dwell in my father's house.

Odd thing, if he was truly sent to assassinate him.

Pretty much this.
We've no reason to assume Kellhus' inner dialogue is lying when he's conflicted about whether the Dunyain axioms still hold. He's conflicted because of the immensity of new knowledge he'd gained, which is (supposedly) not available to the Dunyain. This weight of knowledge can't but crush the intention with which he was sent out. I'm not even certain what the intention was, it is conveniently suited to whatever suits him the most at the time, in dunyain fashion. Note that he, by his own words, killed Moenghus because of all the sins he's commited while remaining no more than Dunyain.

Here lies another huge nest of snakes.
We cannot assume the Ishual Dunyain fall under the same judgement. In fact, it would make no sense for them to. Kellhus was their paragon (more or less proved with the tree exercise by Pragma) when he was sent out after Moenghus. Let's assume he's not delusional here first. Until he believed in the inevitable judgement of the Outside, he did all things Dunyain. Was there no sin? nothing warranting his damnation?
Either there wasn't, in which case the Ishual Dunyain are likewise not damned, or he did and was absolved of it due to not knowing it. I find the latter less believable, because of Moenghus. He was likewise sent out, had access to all the Three Seas knowledge. If both knew the same facts about the world (and i think they did - while Moenghus didn't have Achamia, he had additional 30 years advantage), they should come to the same conclusion that Ouside is an active agency and it's damnation a big no-no. Moenghus did not come to this conclusion and was, in Kellhus' eyes damned, regardless of him &quot;not knowing&quot; sin is real. Of course, Kellhus becoming a Prophet even in his own eyes may have something to do with it.

So unless Kellhus' prophetic status absolves him of previous sin, or perhaps all sin (even leading others unto sin) alltogether, Moenghus should be an isolated case of Dunyain damnation.


The case of sorcery is another interesting question.
On one hand we have Kellhus' judgement that it is no longer a warrant of damnation, on the other Mimara's firsthand experience that it does. Considering previous incarnations of the Judging Eye (recorded ones Achamian spouts anyway) i lean towards public opinion of it being damnable is correct.
Yet Kellhus practices it, when he should side with the Consult from the first bruise of the Mark he received, according to Dunyain axioms. More than that, he even actively leads others to practice it. Is this some sort of Machiavellian &quot;end justifies the means&quot; god-issued absolution to Prophet rank people? Perhaps Kellhus actually believes that it is not damnable and is not commiting a sin practicing it. Or maybe he's just insane.
I feel grounds for speculations are wide and broad, with so much being in question or assumed true. view post


Maithanet posted 04 February 2011 in The Judging EyeMaithanet by Gothmog, Commoner

Maithanet is still an enigma yes.

The fact of him being an only son of Moenghus is a bit troubling. Kellhus spawned.. what, 7 in 20 years? You'd assume Moenghus, who likewise must've seen the importance of it, would manage more than 1 in 30 years.
The incredibly rare compatibility of earthborn women with Dunyain blood explains it away, though not without a skeptical eyebrow raised. While Moenghus had a smaller gene pool on his hands, it was still more than half of the known world.


What i'm more interested in is why doesn't Kellhus trust Maithanet.
There's several references to it, none explicit, but all suggesting that Maithanet is as high as he's ever going to get. He's flawed, but we don't know in what way. I don't think it's simply being less capable than a pure Dunyain.

Then there's the question of why doesn't Maithanet practice sorcery. Considering all human resources of the Few are being poured directly into schools without exception (Serwa, Swayal witches) and Kellhus' Arcanum Novum (or somesuch) lifting the curse of damnation off sorcery practice, you'd think Maitha should be the first to go into it. Partly to set an example for the people, being the Shriah, partly for the asset he'd become.
We don't know how far Kellhus' sorcery has progressed, but we know he pretty much started with three-layered sorceries. The absurd advantage of power this gave him was overwhelming in final stages of Shimeh battle in TTT. We also know the greatest nonman sorcerer was also able to pronounce two inutteral sorcery. I think it's very likely Maitha would be able to do the same.
Yet he's parked home, leashed to thousand temples like good puppy told to sit and wait. Why doesn't he trust him? view post


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