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Something odd about Gin'yursis posted 02 September 2009 in The Judging EyeSomething odd about Gin'yursis by Supersword, Commoner

Possessed vocal chords? Not quite. Possessed inactive minds, however, yes. Both forms were unconscious, and therefore easy to obtain use of, if the king was a Quya as well. Even if he was not, he was a ghost, so... view post


The Judging Eye cover art / edition posted 02 September 2009 in The Judging EyeThe Judging Eye cover art / edition by Jerako, Candidate

I've seen that exact cover at my local library, but that's the only place. Not sure where you'd find a copy for yourself. view post


Incariol, what does it mean? posted 02 September 2009 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Jerako, Candidate

Quote: "Supersword":2igzo4sx
First off, in figuring out the syllables between Nonman words, so far as I can tell is that the only difference between Nonman speech patterns and Human speech patterns would be caused by the fused teeth of the former. Otherwise, they still speak via sound vibrations, which leads me to believe that their syllables would constitute much the same length and shape as Humans'. Therefore, it is my belief that the original thought on in-ca-riol or inc-a-riol present more accurate samples.[/quote:2igzo4sx]

Yes, their physical organs for speaking would be very similar, but even within a single species, there are many different cultural modes of thought, and they're expressed quite differently. As has been stated before, Ihrimsu appears to be an inflective language. In grammar, inflection or inflexion is the way language handles grammatical relations and relational categories such as tense, mood, voice, aspect (conjugation only), person, number (conjugation and declension), gender, case (declension only). Many words, such as prepositions, are eliminated, because the language handles that a different way. So it can't be translated with 100% efficiency, and assumptions based on our native tongue about it might not be accurate.

Scott is obviously a student of archaic languages, I wouldn't be surprised if Ihrimsu has much grammar that has been influenced by early Indo-European languages, such as Latin or Ancient Greek. I wouldn't be surprised if a study of those languages would reveal some clues about Ihrimsu. view post


The eye in the Pick's heart *spoilers* posted 02 September 2009 in The Judging EyeThe eye in the Pick's heart *spoilers* by Jerako, Candidate

The man specifically said something, for whatever reason, to the effect that his "heart couldn't see." Achamian just knew that would become the literal truth, because of the nature of the topoi. The Pick told him where to look. view post


Incariol, what does it mean? posted 03 September 2009 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Thorsten, Candidate

@Rhadamanth:

So if Incariol is from ' hall of the sky ', are there any references to where Mekeritrig (who seems likely to be Incariol, IMHO) is from? Do you the the ' hall of the sky ' is in any way a reference to the ' ark of the sky ' ?


The translated Ihrimsû names are descriptions of the main theme of the life of the person they refer to. Clearly a name like Sin'niroiha 'First among Peoples' (TT:522) cannot be a birth name, so there must be a costom to adopt names later, perhaps a bit similar to pharaonic Egypt. I don't think that there is any reference to an origin in the name.

On a similar note, does anyone else think Kellhus may have translated Auja-Gilcunni (the lost ground tongue of the nonmen)?


I do not think there is any reason to assume that.

@ nonman_erratic:

I follow your logic though am not sure on the "Inc- / Incu-" component. How do you reconcile Inchoroi with Incu-Holoinas? Or do you think the addition of the -h vs the -u to 'Inc' changes the meaning drastically?


I think that aspiration of a consonant might correspond to a more abstract meaning of an element, so is 'great' ish 'exalted' and inc 'sky' inch 'empty'. Admittedly that is a wild stab in the dark, but it does not influence my conclusions on the etymology of Incariol since incu is an attested an translated element, so we know that it exists and do not have to use theories to deduce it.

From there I postulated that Incariol equated to something along the lines of "Empty Hall/Stronghold"... Which I stretched to "Soul-less One"...


To be blunt, that may be guided by your idea of what Incariol is like (and presumably only works with an adopted name by the way), but it is not supported by the linguistic side, inc- does not mean 'empty', inch(o) does.

Personally, I'm not interested in stretching translations - it reveals a lot about your expectations for the character, but not necessarily about what Bakker meant him to be like, or how he chose the name. Thus, I'll leave this field of investigation to someone else <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

@Rhadamanth:

Does Achamian speak Ihrimsu?


No, it is explained clearly that he does not and that sorcery uses a different stage of the language.

@Supersword:

First off, in figuring out the syllables between Nonman words, so far as I can tell is that the only difference between Nonman speech patterns and Human speech patterns would be caused by the fused teeth of the former. Otherwise, they still speak via sound vibrations, which leads me to believe that their syllables would constitute much the same length and shape as Humans'. Therefore, it is my belief that the original thought on in-ca-riol or inc-a-riol present more accurate samples.


In analyzing compounds, the syllable structure is not relevant - you want to track the units that carry meaning. 'motorway' is decomposed in three syllables as 'mo-tor-way', but if you ask for meaning, you find the two elements 'motor' and 'way'. An element of many syllables may nevertheless carry only a single meaning. In studying real-world languages, you find rather extreme examples. So you are arguing more or less based on your taste how you think it should be (which is okay in a sense), but it has not really much to do with the sound producing apparatus.

@ Jerako:

Scott is obviously a student of archaic languages, I wouldn't be surprised if Ihrimsu has much grammar that has been influenced by early Indo-European languages, such as Latin or Ancient Greek.


While much of the nomenclature of sorcery is blatantly based on Ancient Greek (as I outlined elsewhere), I cannot see that Ihrimsû would be. If there are any connections beyond chance similarity, they continue to escape me. I also think that such speculations are a bit premature - one would have to know more of the inflection pattern to see if there is a similar language elsewhere. view post


No-God theory, or another theory posted 05 September 2009 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]No-God theory, or another theory by Callan S., Auditor

I think Cnaiur is probably alive, but his story is ended/dead. The nay(say)er is gone... <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) -->

With the no god, I'm thinking it's some sort of inverse to the spirit world that Kelhus talks about each soul being an extension of. Taking it as actually existing (Kelhus tends to use the truth as his leverage point) view post


I am a devout follower of Kellhus posted 10 September 2009 in The Judging EyeI am a devout follower of Kellhus by Riardd Ambrosius, Commoner

I am cognizant of the fact that Anasurimbor Kellhus may be a false prophet, but I simply cannot help myself. Ever since being introduced to him in &quot;The Darkness That Comes Before,&quot; he has held me spellbound, seduced. So much in fact do I idolize him, that I know if I was following him to Golgotterath, I would gladly die for him. Or should I say Him? Again, I don't care if he is a madman, an anti-christ of sorts. It's just very strange of me, I realize, to be so captivated by a man such as this who not only exerts power over the characters in the world of Earwa, but the reader as well. I know some cannot stand Kellhus, but for me, I just cannot resist him, and I find myself rooting for him, no matter what so-called &quot;atrocities&quot; he may have committed. It's very strange. I have read a lot of fantasy, and this is genuinely the first character *who may be evil* that I have actually looked up to. His charisma, charm, leadership qualities I have actually tried to practice in real life from time to time. I have actually learned and applied his principles (or should i say Bakker's) to my everyday conduct, and even the &quot;manipulation techniques&quot; have actually bore good fruit. I have learned much more about human behavior, and have come to appreciate people on a whole new level. It's very strange, it's very surreal, and it's very good, as I cannot but give thanks to this wonderful character Scott has created. Kudos! view post


I am a devout follower of Kellhus posted 11 September 2009 in The Judging EyeI am a devout follower of Kellhus by Curethan, Didact

His body servants have noted that his latrine smells of sweet roses.

If only he was good with children. view post


Now listening to... posted 11 September 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by AJD, Candidate

Corrosion Of Conformity - Never Turns To More

Anyone that knows who they are and like their album Deliverance needs to hear it. Yeah, I am 3 years late but damn, what an album. view post


US Presidential Elections posted 14 September 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionUS Presidential Elections by Sil-Inchor, Commoner

Paranoid much, champ? view post


I am a devout follower of Kellhus posted 17 September 2009 in The Judging EyeI am a devout follower of Kellhus by Riardd Ambrosius, Commoner

World-born men such as you, I am sure, follow your traditional cultural norms of what it means to parent children &quot;properly.&quot; I am sure my master Kellhus would respectfully differ with your perception of rearing children. <!-- s;) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_wink.gif" alt=";)" title="Wink" /><!-- s;) --> view post


Now Reading... posted 23 September 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by carlsefni, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;carlsefni&quot;:3ilgl4an
The Judging Eye still waits on my shelf![/quote:3ilgl4an]
I'm pleased to say that I'm now more than half-way through The Judging Eye. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


Incariol, what does it mean? posted 28 September 2009 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Madness, Peralogue

I wish I retained the time and energy you all do to decipher Cu'jara Cinmoi's epic. I devoted much time to these endeavors when I first realized that The Prince of Nothing wasn't the complete work but since have moved on to just appreciating the works as they come. The human commentary is literally endless. My respect for Mr. Bakker's mind is endless.

Perhaps, this will be my slow return to posting on these boards. We shall see. I'm nearly always incited to write when reading the conceit with which most of you post your &quot;answers.&quot;

Two things to add to your commentary:

Though I doubt that Cleric himself is one, remember that Aurang admitted that the Consult created Nonmen skin-spies. As well, there is almost certainly a skin-spy among the Skin Eaters. Though, I personally disagree that it is Sarl as I doubt a skin-spy's persona would have been reduced to Sarl's state as they near the exit of Cil-Aujas.

Secondly, again, I remember when The Thousandfold Thought was yet to be released and it was definitively a controversy whether Mallahet was indeed Moenghus. I think it wise to adjust your perspectives and realize that though it is an amusing exercise in cognition to try and anticipate Cu'jara Cinmoi, it is extremely doubtful, and conceited of you, to think that you have done so. view post


Incariol, what does it mean? posted 28 September 2009 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Jerako, Candidate

Quote: &quot;Madness&quot;:3lkahfh1
...remember that Aurang admitted that the Consult created Nonmen skin-spies.[/quote:3lkahfh1]

Where did this occur? I don't remember him saying anything of the sort. It would revise my assumptions about a few things were this true. I was under the impression that skin-spies were invented ca. 3800 YotT, when the Consult &quot;disappeared&quot; from the three-seas. &quot;A new artifact of the Old Science,&quot; I think Achamian said. view post


Incariol, what does it mean? posted 28 September 2009 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by lfex, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;Jerako&quot;:37n8n7cf
Quote: &quot;Madness&quot;:37n8n7cf
...remember that Aurang admitted that the Consult created Nonmen skin-spies.[/quote:37n8n7cf]

Where did this occur? I don't remember him saying anything of the sort. It would revise my assumptions about a few things were this true. I was under the impression that skin-spies were invented ca. 3800 YotT, when the Consult &quot;disappeared&quot; from the three-seas. &quot;A new artifact of the Old Science,&quot; I think Achamian said.[/quote:37n8n7cf]


Aurang does mention that the Consult has spies in Ishterebinth, but I always assumed they are Non-Men secretly working for them. view post


Now listening to... posted 29 September 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by carlsefni, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;AJD&quot;:v5e532i0
Corrosion Of Conformity - Never Turns To More
Anyone that knows who they are and like their album Deliverance needs to hear it. Yeah, I am 3 years late but damn, what an album.[/quote:v5e532i0]

I always had a soft spot for Wiseblood -- apparently not one of COC's more commercially successful albums! -- but, for example, &quot;Long Whip/Big America&quot; never leaves my iPod. <!-- s8) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_cool.gif" alt="8)" title="Cool" /><!-- s8) --> I haven't actually heard In the Arms of God, though; I'll have to check it out.

Just recently, though, I've been on a classical vibe, having added CD versions of the old early '70s Paavo Berglund recording of Sibelius's Kullervo to my collection. I've long had the '80s Berglund Kullervo, but always liked the older version of the &quot;Kullervo Goes to War&quot; movement that I knew from my Granddad's original LP release of the '70s version; it was just faster and more violent! <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> Now I've created a nice little play list that drops the '70s &quot;Kullervo Goes to War&quot; in amongst the other movements from the '80s version. I've always wanted to do that, and now I have. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> One of life's silly little pleasures! <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D --> view post


Incariol, what does it mean? posted 29 September 2009 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by anor277, Didact

The Consult agents in Ishterebinth could also be skin spies posing as human slaves. Mind you, the idea that a skin spy could pose as a non-man is not inconceivable; no doubt it would be much more difficult for a skin spy to waylay a non-man, turn him off, and then assume a millenia-old identity, than to do the same with a human. Skin spies were able to replace humans with contemptuous ease (witness Cnaiűr when freed by skin spies from the Nansur, &quot;Is it always this easy?&quot;). view post


I don't understand how the word 'will' is being used posted 30 September 2009 in NeuropathI don't understand how the word 'will' is being used by Thorsten, Candidate

A while ago Tilberian wrote:

Look up a picture of a CAT scan. Your search is over: that is consciousness.


Just to illustrate why I am and continue to be skeptical about looking for fundamental answers in brain scans: [url=http&#58;//prefrontal&#46;org/files/posters/Bennett-Salmon-2009&#46;pdf:10a9r3g6]A dead salmon demonstrates emotional response in brain scans[/url:10a9r3g6] (the link is to a conference poster). view post


This is a bit off topic... posted 12 October 2009 in The Judging EyeThis is a bit off topic... by Athjeari, Peralogue

but this is the most active board, so I figure the chances I'll get a response are best if I post here.

I have a question, I am looking for the part within the The Prince of Nothing in which Achamian is talking to a young Proyas and Achamian is talking to him about questioning things.

Proyas says something along the lines, &quot;So are you saying the Tusk is lying to us?&quot;
Achamian replies, &quot;I don't know.&quot;

And it goes on to say that Achamian was asked to leave Proyas' household the very next day.

Does anyone know which book I could find this part in? If you could give a page number that would be splendid, but even just the book title would be a big help right now.

TO keep this topic more in line with the board, does anyone have any idea when a paperback version of The Judging Eye is planned to be released? view post


This is a bit off topic... posted 12 October 2009 in The Judging EyeThis is a bit off topic... by anor277, Didact

I think it's from The Prince of Nothing, and Achamian goes on to praise the value of doubt (dubiety?, which is the right noun?); can't oblige with a page number sorry. As regards the paperback version of TJE, I assume this is distinct from the trade paperback (whatever that is); I saw one (TPB) in our local bookstore this morning. view post


This is a bit off topic... posted 12 October 2009 in The Judging EyeThis is a bit off topic... by Athjeari, Peralogue

anor277, thank you for the response but I already know it's from The Prince of Nothing. I was hoping that someone would be able to tell me the specific book. Is it from, TDTCB, TWP, or TTT? I am trying to look for this specific section for a class I am teaching.

I suppose I needed to be more clear about the paper back question. Yes, I was referring to the trade paper back, and I am really excited that you already have seen the trade paper back. view post


This is a bit off topic... posted 12 October 2009 in The Judging EyeThis is a bit off topic... by anor277, Didact

Sorry, A. I must be going loopy. The scene is from the first novel, TDTCB, that's what I meant to say yesterday. DUUUUH.

The trade paperback was in a university bookstore in Sydney, and I think it's been there for a long time.

ETA: I just had a quick glance thru The Darkness that Comes Before (Orbit, 2007 paperback), and I couldn't find the passage for which you're looking. The closest I could find was Chapter 15 (entitled Momenn, p 477 in above edition) where Proyas summons Achamian to his court for advice regarding Kellhus and Cnaiűr. If I'm mistaken then maybe the passage is in The Warrior Prophet when Achamian begins to entertain doubts as to Kellhus' identity. I'm sorry I haven't been much help. Hopefully, someone here will know precisely where the passage is. view post


This is a bit off topic... posted 13 October 2009 in The Judging EyeThis is a bit off topic... by ThePrinceofNothing, Candidate

I've been rereading bits from The Darkness That Comes Before (a bit haphazardly, mind you) and haven't come across the passage you're looking for. I would venture that it's not in the first book (wherein Achamian hasn't quite developed to his full skepticism yet), but possibly in the second, as anor suggested. I'm sorry that I couldn't be more specific either, but I am pretty sure it's not in the first book. view post


R. Scott Bakker and Cormac McCarthy posted 13 October 2009 in The Judging EyeR. Scott Bakker and Cormac McCarthy by ThePrinceofNothing, Candidate

I know this has been mentioned in a few infrequent places throughout this board, but I've been looking back through The Judging Eye lately (along with the books of the previous trilogy) and have found myself becoming more interested in the influence of Cormac McCarthy on Bakker's work. I'm sure we all remember the great quote from Blood Meridian at the beginning of The Thousandfold Thought; but I also found a large Blood Meridian influence in The Judging Eye, specifically regarding the scalpers. The characters of Kosoter and Cleric greatly resemble Glanton and the judge, and even the whole idea of scalping was borrowed from McCarthy's novel.

My main question is: does this influence end with mere physical similarities, or is Bakker borrowing similar themes from McCarthy as well? view post


This is a bit off topic... posted 14 October 2009 in The Judging EyeThis is a bit off topic... by anor277, Didact

@Athjeari, it seems I was mistaken. I think the passage you want is in Chapter 17 of The Warrior Prophet (Orbit paperback, 2008, chapter begins p 445, relevant passage is p 457,........&quot;Are you saying the Tusk lies?&quot;................). It was Proyas' reminiscence and not Achamian's. At the time Achamian was in the hands of the Scarlet Schoolmen, and Proyas has just received a message from Maithanet advising him to assist Drusas Achamian.

@PON I'm still trying to write something in response to your Cormac McCarthy thread, everything I write is naive or self-evident or both! view post


R. Scott Bakker and Cormac McCarthy posted 14 October 2009 in The Judging EyeR. Scott Bakker and Cormac McCarthy by anor277, Didact

I think Bakker was obviously impressed with the McCarthy novel, and the description of Achamian’s expedition is for mine the most absorbing part of The Judging Eye. The idea that a group of men would band together and hunt a (very dangerous!!!) prey, Apaches or Sranc, is almost beyond belief, and of course in the Apaches' case it was true; a few American and Mexican states paid a bounty on Apache scalps. And remember that scene in Blood Meridian in the Mexican town where the scalp-hunters have a drunken revel of alcohol and rapine, and there's a sign on the wall when they leave, &quot;Mejor los Indios&quot;. That there would exist a type of man who would willingly take those appalling risks in an appalling activity points to a very brutal age. That the British authorities in North America in the 18th century paid a bounty of some £100 per Indian scalp (a fortune!) goes someway to explain why there were some scalpers.


I don't know if you've read any of George Macdonald Fraser’s Flashman series of novels (which were comic but quite historical) in which Flashy, notorious bully and poltroon of Tom Brown's Schooldays, joins the army after expulsion from Rugby, and becomes undeservedly a great military hero of the Victorian age (all the while behaving as a coward, lecher, and toad-eater), and was a part-time scalper in Flashman and the Redskins. Flashy was part of Tom Gallantin’s gang (probably the same as Glanton’s in Blood Meridian). Glanton’s gang were especially notorious as well in that they drew no distinction between the scalps of braves or those of women or children, or those of unfortunate Mexicans who happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time (of course neither did the bounty authorities, how do you classify scalps?). view post


BUY CHEAP VIAGRA CIALIS SOMA --x-- GENERIC DRUG PHARMACY posted 14 October 2009 in The Great Ordeal [supposed]BUY CHEAP VIAGRA CIALIS SOMA --x-- GENERIC DRUG PHARMACY by Cnaiur urs Skiotha, Commoner

BUY THESE DRUGS AT ROCK BOTTOM PRICES IN BOGOTA LIMA!!!!!!!!!

FREE LOAN CONSOLIDATION AND ANAL SEX!!!!!!!!!!



<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="HTTP://DRUGS.ON.NIMP.ORG/">HTTP://DRUGS.ON.NIMP.ORG/</a><!-- m -->




all caps! view post


This is a bit off topic... posted 17 October 2009 in The Judging EyeThis is a bit off topic... by Athjeari, Peralogue

Thanks for the help guys.

I was able to find the passage.

I love that part. view post


Is God Flawed??? posted 31 October 2009 in Philosophy DiscussionIs God Flawed??? by Callan S., Auditor

It's judgement that ascribes things as flawed.

The source of flaws is judgement. view post


Disciple of the Dog posted 02 November 2009 in General DiscusssionDisciple of the Dog by lfex, Peralogue

There is a little more info about this book here:

<!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.fritzagency.com/master.php?http://www.fritzagency.com/titelinhalt.php?no1=2&amp;no2=2">http://www.fritzagency.com/master.php?h ... o1=2&amp;no2=2</a><!-- m -->


«DISCIPLE OF THE DOG
Bakker, R. Scott
Novel
Pages: e-ms 187 pp
Orion

DISCIPLE has the audacity of Neuropath, and the same unflinching social commentary, but it’s on very different ground. It’s a detective story, and the main character is Disciple Manning, a hardboiled private investigator with Hyperthymestic Syndrome, a rare mental condition that does not allow him to forget. Disciple is hired to find a teenage girl who he is sure is already dead, and the trail leads him through backward small-town America and right into the midst of two rival religious cults, either -- or neither -- of which could have cut off the girl’s fingers and toes and strewn them around town. It’s an open question whether Disciple’s anarchic tendencies, scabrous behavior and subversive observations will derail the investigation, or whether in the end he’ll discover some species of the truth.» view post


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