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Favourite quotes, lyrics or just words..... posted 13 June 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionFavourite quotes, lyrics or just words..... by AJD, Candidate

Some favorite quotes

"The basis of optimism is sheer terror" Oscar Wilde

Never allow someone to be your priority while allowing yourself to be their option. <--I do not remember who that was.

"I drink to make other people interesting." George Jean Nathan

"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself." Sir Richard Francis Burton

"There's nothing like your own shit to make you realize how much you stink. " Thomas Aquinas

And a sappy one.

"Love is a promise delivered already broken." Steve Martin. view post

Terrorist or Freedom Fighter? posted 14 June 2009 in Philosophy DiscussionTerrorist or Freedom Fighter? by luciferi, Candidate

With the current and recent past events that have happened since 911, a lot of condoned racism against muslims and arabs have developed without any "real" understanding of culture or religions. But, stuff like this has been happening all over the world. Acts of "terror" by many several factions or groups have been committed countless times. Are the people that take part in these acts terrorists, or freedom fighters? Is this even a good question, because the answer can very well possibly be both yes and no depending on which side you ask. Who was it who said "if you win its a revolution, if you lose its an insurrection"? The definitions of terrorist and terrorism are as follows:
"Terrorist"- a person who terrorizes or frightens others.
"Terrorism"- the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, esp. for political purposes. / a terrorist method of governing.
By this could you consider George Washington a terrorist? Or is he a freedom fighter? Or are all freedom fighters terrorist? What about the US? Could the US be considered a terrorist nation? Here is my argument that yes, the US can be considered terrorist:
We are taught to live in fear. Fear of crime, disease, weather, the future, etc, etc, etc. Our judicial system is screwed up so the public is forced to buy locks, alarms, guns, and all manners of safety devices because the system in place doesn't work. The crime problem gets bigger and not a whole lot of things have been done to find a better way to treat criminals and prevent crime and recidivism. Lately that has been changing, but people are still afraid to go out and sit at a park in the middle of the night. The government allies with the media to always give us something to worry about. Do you remember Y2K? That was the biggest joke ever. An earlier example of fear was eugenicism (is that the proper term? I'm not sure so correct me if I'm wrong). It basically became a science and many big members of society supported it. But, oh no, WWII happens, and then nobody even wants to remember that they supported it. Then there was Chernobyl. The long lasting effects of that was supposed to kill so many people and only really affected a few. It was even proven that a lot of people ended up dying, because they thought they were doomed already. This 9/11 thing to. Apparently all Arabs are terrorists and are raiding hospitals and killing babies. This was proven to never have happened. Also more recently we have this huge scare of global warming that everybody is buying into. The main consensus is that anybody that doesn't think its real is stupid. Well I guess I'm stupid. There is global warming of a type going on, but it's not man produced. Even more recently was this swine flu epidemic. There was a public high school in the US that disallowed shaking hands at their graduation because of this. C'mon now, I'm pretty sure more people have died from regular flu then swine flu. What the f*** is going on? Are we in the forms of hegemony like that of Orwell's 1984? I don't know whats going on anymore. Who will watch the watchers? view post

Zeitgeist posted 14 June 2009 in Philosophy DiscussionZeitgeist by luciferi, Candidate

Yeah I kind of felt the same way about "Religulous" by Bill Maher. He says the reason for his film is to get closet atheists to step out and the main point is that he really wants to find out and is curious about what other people think. What a load of horsecrap. The whole movie he doesn't let the other people talk and just makes fun of everything as much as possible. He doesn't care what other people think and doesn't what to "find out". He is already set in his mind and just wanted to make other people doubt what they believe in. view post

Biggest Surprises TJE / *SPOILERS* possible posted 22 June 2009 in The Judging EyeBiggest Surprises TJE / *SPOILERS* possible by luciferi, Candidate

I just thought having a topic for what everybody was suprised the most (or least) by (whether in a good/bad way), whether it be the changes in style, character, story, detail, etc. A few of the things that were a surprise for me were: Kellhus having soooo many children, Mimara's storyline developed and continued, the acceptance of female sorcerers, no "real" mention of Cnaiur (I mean only Akka recalled him in pasttime I think), the lack of "sex" ( I thought this was for the better. The first three had so many references and side scenes it was a little much although the argument can be made that life is full of this and Bakker just wanted to portray inner desires and "real" life), change in pace (no battles?, I know I know, the slog story was awesome, but so much detail was put into atmosphere+environment through TJE and not really towards "action"), also, there was much less strong enticing wordplay amongst characters, none of the "good" stuff from PON. What about you guys? view post

Help me understand posted 22 June 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionHelp me understand by luciferi, Candidate

...perhaps a late reply, but a reply nonetheless. I think life is about learning, not necessarily about what you want to accomplish/become (although these are important things in what makes life). To me life is a quest for knowledge, a book waiting to be read, an unanswerable question that I try to answer. I don't think that life can be fully understood. Certainly many have tried, but for me, personally, I find that although the ultimate question(=life) is unanswerable, facets and little things become understood when one searches. Although I may never be satisfied with everything the way it is, I know that IT IS the way it is and thats something I can rely on. I probably am being a little confusing, but I know what I mean inside my thoughts. Do you?

Is there more to life? Certainly both sides can be argued and I am not competent enough to provide the correct answer, but I think people should at least try and find out. Seek more knowledge on any subject, there is always more to learn. I have struggled with thoughts like these as well, and what I fall back on is this: I don't know everything yet. Although I know I will never know everything, I can always know more. I hope you are doing well, and have come to some decision. view post

Eon - Greg Bear posted 22 June 2009 in Literature DiscussionEon - Greg Bear by luciferi, Candidate

Great read for Sci-Fi Fantasy fans. It reminded me of the video game Halo (the 1st one) for some reason... view post

Ilium posted 22 June 2009 in Literature DiscussionIlium by luciferi, Candidate

I enjoyed the blending of literature in Ilium and Olympos. I really like the story. The books for a variety reasons reminded me of the SNES game Chrono Trigger. Did it do that to anyone else? view post

Biggest Surprises TJE / *SPOILERS* possible posted 22 June 2009 in The Judging EyeBiggest Surprises TJE / *SPOILERS* possible by coobek, Candidate

No Consult. Save one skin-spy.

Except the games in the palace no political games inside the March.

No Cnaiur <!-- s:( --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad" /><!-- s:( --> view post

The metaphysics of Eärwa (contd.) posted 22 June 2009 in The Judging EyeThe metaphysics of Eärwa (contd.) by coobek, Candidate

Great Post!

I just think that Gods cannot beat the casuality (maybe they can but we cannot see it yet) they just can control the face muscles perfectly <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> Better than Consult and Tekne.

Provided that it is not a Kelhus plot - not to ask Sorweel. view post

Zeitgeist posted 23 June 2009 in Philosophy DiscussionZeitgeist by Cnaiür, Peralogue

Quote: &quot;avatar_of_existence&quot;:2ujrtgy3
Are you a Christian Cnaiur? I'm not gonna judge or be all preachy if you are, my best friends are all christians and I wish I could believe too. Just curious.

Yes, I consider myself of Christian faith, with an open mind towards new (old) age/spirituality. I consider Jesus to be an extraordinary man, who had some incredibly profound lessons to teach us: peace and kindness, love and forgiveness, and gratitude, with a specific focus on gratitude and forgiveness. I can only speak for myself here, so I will... I believe intensely that these lessons Jesus taught people to live by are the best and most appropriate ways to live/be if you wish to spiritually evolve in the whole cosmic scope of life. Otherwise, you're just going to come back to this level/stage/dimension of life to try all over again.

I find myself being insulted when others try to debunk Jesus as a figment of the imagination, especially when the debunking is being propagated on a large scale, like movies and documentaries. By instilling this into people's minds people will most likely turn a blind eye to Jesus, thereby, never allowing themselves the opportunity to learn about who he was nor the lessons he taught. With Zeitgeist, that subversive idiot tried to debunk Jesus by comparing him to the Egyptian legend of Horus. Almost every point he made to compare the two was false. Just this alone classifies Zeitgeist as a movie (fiction), not a documentary (non-fiction).
I've noticed throughout all my life that there have been numerous attempts, methods, agendas to debunk and/or pervert Jesus. Unfortunately, people are falling for it. Its a shame when someone states Jesus is a fraud or a cool guy and so on, yet, they've never opened up the New Testament, let alone read the four Gospels. Truly, people really are missing out on incredible lessons in those four books, lessons your local magazine stand or tell-a-vision box, even your local book store, don't teach.

Just to digress a bit... Terry Goodkind wrote an eleven book series called the Sword of Truth series. The first book is titled Wizard's First Rule. Each book reveals a Wizard's Rule. The Wizard's First Rule is this:

&quot;People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid. they will believe a lie because they want to believe its true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People's heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool.&quot;

&quot;People need an enemy to feel a sense of purpose. Its easy to lead people when they have a sense of purpose. Sense of purpose is more important by far than the truth. In fact, truth has no bearing in this. People are stupid, they want to believe, so they do.&quot;

Its obvious to me, with the political situations across this planet, and with movies and documentaries such as Zeitgeist, that this rule is being applied, and people are falling for it. I will even admit that I could very well be one of those people. There's a good saying (I forget who coined it): &quot;The lie is different at every level.&quot;

That's it for now. Somebody gave me a copy of Religulous to watch. I have yet to, because, fortunately for me, Bill has been on my shitlist for years, so I expect nothing more than garbage from him, and I don't want to waste my time watching garbage. Thanks luciferi for clarifying the obvious expectation from Bill. I hope others who watch that garbage can also see it for what it is, and more importantly, see Bill Maher for the distortion he is. view post

Countering the Argument posted 03 July 2009 in NeuropathCountering the Argument by Callan S., Auditor

In terms of free will and decision making (and taking it your summing up of the arguement is roughly on target - it's been awhile since I read it), I think the utterly deterministic model is a self forfilling prophesy. Essentially the human mind (probably alot moreso than any other animal) can to a degree, observe itself. This creates a powerful feedback loop. Maybe someones addicted to cigarettes. But unlike an animal, they can see the hunger in them - they can forceably try and block it. Sure, maybe they'll cave in latter. But an animal would just go smoke a cigarette - they are that deterministic. A human looks at themselves working and their actions aren't soley on the animal level - their actions are affected by that self reflection.

Is that self reflection deterministic? Essentially yes, but it's a far more bloody complicated determinism. Because the system isn't just operating on stimuli from the outside world, it's operating on stimuli from the inner world, which is affected by the outside world, which is affected by the inner world, which is...and so on. No doubt for some things a single feedback loop could even go on for years. Bloody complicated - to just call us a deterministic machine is to indulge in a world simplifying illusion itself - like the illusion of 'solid' objects, when objects aren't solid, they are mostly empty. To see it as determinism is a simplification illusion, rather than a reason to think the human mind operates like simple clockwork. Objects appear solid. The processes of the mind appears to be clockwork. These are the illusions. view post

Losing the Argument is actually a Win? posted 03 July 2009 in NeuropathLosing the Argument is actually a Win? by Callan S., Auditor

Edit out negative emotions? And which ones are those? Somehow, with godlike clarity, people will know for sure that some are negative, and exactly which ones are negative? view post

I don't understand how the word 'will' is being used posted 03 July 2009 in NeuropathI don't understand how the word 'will' is being used by Callan S., Auditor

I'm rather skeptical that the question requires lengthy essays to answer it. I'll keep it in mind that it might, but for now I'll treat it as if it doesn't and the whole lengthy essay thing as just a distraction. view post

Scott bakker interview posted 03 July 2009 in Author Q &amp; AScott bakker interview by Callan S., Auditor


Heh, at the end of one he says certainty is a crock of shit.

He's certain that certainty is a crock of shit?

Heh, I'd love to chew that one over with him, though it might just have been a miss placement of words. view post

Thank You posted 03 July 2009 in Author Q &amp; AThank You by Callan S., Auditor

I think that's answered in a thread here somewhere - that area of the book got alot of rewriting, so things are kind of odd for that reason. I think it was serwe's, but the ambiguity left (both deliberately and because of the rewrite) lets you kind of feel what it would be like for other people to see him pull his own heart from his chest. And squeeze it like a stress ball...just joking <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post

The eye in the Pick's heart *spoilers* posted 03 July 2009 in The Judging EyeThe eye in the Pick's heart *spoilers* by Callan S., Auditor

For some reason the humourous idea comes to mind that plenty of times before in his life Akka has asked people to cut open and take out dead mens hearts - but all the other times they were normal and he's like &quot;Uh, okay, no reason...lets keep walking&quot; like it was a pythonesque social fopah and it's just a tad embaressing to have, like, asked someone to be cut open for a bit of a gawk at their heart. view post

I don't understand how the word 'will' is being used posted 07 July 2009 in NeuropathI don't understand how the word 'will' is being used by Thorsten, Candidate

I'm rather skeptical that the question requires lengthy essays to answer it.

What question?

What Dawkins thinks or says is true? - That requires to read his book.
If Dawkins' arguments are sound? - That requires a lengthy essay unless you consider his arguments a priori valid or invalid, otherwise you'll not be spared the trouble of investigating them.
If there is free will or a soul? - That requires more than a lengthy essay - philosophers have been working a while on that one. view post

Esme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* posted 08 July 2009 in The Judging EyeEsme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* by Ilyich, Commoner

After my first time reading through TJE, I found myself wondering, &quot;why do some of Kellhus' children turn out half-baked?&quot;

Besides speculation that Kellhus is insane (which I'm not very convinced he is), I couldn't see how that would affect his seed. Some might argue that in TJE mind has some bearing over matter, but I'm going to present an alternative theory anyway.

In the first book, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Esme have sex with an skin spy (I'm assuming it was Sarcellus)?

Perhaps the reason her child Inrilatas is messed up?

&quot;Inrilatas' shriek trailed into a series of masturbatory grunts. On and on they continued, each sucking on the one prior, all possessing a hairless animality that made her clutch Kelmomas' shoulder.&quot;

The madness she describes as being a result of his closeness to God seems to greatly resemble the general demeanor of Sranc?

So, any more ideas? Do you think it has something to do with Kellhus, or Esme? view post

Esme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* posted 08 July 2009 in The Judging EyeEsme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* by Harrol, Moderator

I thinks it is her interaction with Aurang that corrupted her womb. view post

Now Reading... posted 08 July 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by carlsefni, Peralogue

I made a lightening raid on the States last week and picked up The Horse, the Wheel, and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the Modern World by David W. Anthony. I had skimmed around in the Google Books limited preview version a while back and had long wanted a copy.

Good stuff! It's quite an ambitious book and offers some bold suggestions -- and doubtless there will be archaeologists and linguists alike who look askance at some of the conclusions (there always are) -- but even so it is quite carefully argued and very thought-provoking. Anthony is principally an archaeologist, and some readers may feel overwhelmed by occasionally rather dense presentations of archaeological data, but much of it may prove attractive to the keen general reader. (Or, at least, such keen general readers who are intrigued by the doings of nomadic-stype forager &gt; pastoralist cultures on the Pontic-Caspian steppe in the late Neolithic and Bronze Age, and what such people might have been talking about, and how.)

You can easily check out the Google Books limited preview version by searching, and the publisher offers a PDF of the first chapter online: [url:3fz81qf8]http&#58;//press&#46;princeton&#46;edu/titles/8488&#46;html[/url:3fz81qf8].

The Judging Eye still waits on my shelf! view post

Now listening to... posted 08 July 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by carlsefni, Peralogue

Amorphis, Skyforger! More fine, Finnic, folk-metal. <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

(I had been about ready to write these guys off in the early 2000s, but the last 3 albums have given me an @®$€-kicking wake-up call! <!-- s:twisted: --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_twisted.gif" alt=":twisted:" title="Twisted Evil" /><!-- s:twisted: --> ) view post

Esme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* posted 09 July 2009 in The Judging EyeEsme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* by Cripdamind, Candidate

i'm pretty sure it's kellhus' seed that's corrupted by the millennia of inbreeding between the relatively small population of ishualites. it's mentioned in TJE that all of kellhus' children with other women end up like the 'nameless ones' that esme births with eight arms and no eyes. on top of that, in the PON series, cnaiur recalls that his sister (presumably fathered by moenghus while he was in scylvendi captivity) was killed at birth because she was monstrous looking. originally i assumed that it was because she had norisai features such as blonde hair, but after reading the parts of TJE mentioning the &quot;nameless ones&quot; with their various deformities i believe this further evidences that the dunyain have fucked up their own genetics with incest.

it is possible that esmenet is the problem but isn't it a little contrived to think that all of the women kellhus couples with are similarly defiled by the consult when occam and his razor would say that kellhus' genes are deleterious instead? his genes are the only thing that all of the mutant kids have in common.

besides that though, why is he obsessed with having so many children: does he need a lot of them, or is he just aiming for one perfect child? my money says he's sending achaimian to ishual to find a full blooded dunyain anasurimbor son of his. just like moenghus sent for kellhus because maithanet was inadequate. though i can't imagine why, since things didn't work out so well for moenghus. view post

Esme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* posted 18 July 2009 in The Judging EyeEsme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* by Athjeari, Peralogue

I believe the issue lies with Kellhus's seed, not Esmi's womb.
Esmi did bare a normal child with Kellhus. Their first son is quite normal, even though he has no emotion.

As was posted before, Kellhus has tried coupling with other woman and the results have been the same. Kellhus is the problem here.

To the post that mentioned Cnaiur's sister, she wasn't killed at birth for having defects (I don't think anyway, I don't recall this occurring). The reason she was killed was the child had blonde hair and so it became clear that Cnaiur's mother coupled with the slave Moenghus.

Kellhus needs a Dunyain woman to truly have a child that can take over his empire.

(Also, don't forget that Moenghus was able to father a fairly normal child. Maithanet is not defective, at least not in a way that we can tell) Dunyain can couple with common women; whether or not the child will be normal is kind of a shot in the dark. view post

Esme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* posted 19 July 2009 in The Judging EyeEsme's Womb Corrupted? *Spoilers* by Harrol, Moderator

Cnaiur's sister died because she had blond hair. The child of a slave. view post

Magical strength - variable? posted 19 July 2009 in General DiscusssionMagical strength - variable? by WrathOfMe, Commoner

Hello, first topic, blah blah.

I have a question regarding the nature of magic in PoN and TJE.

We are told that the strength of Cishaurim varies considerably, and that this is a known fact. There are multiple levels of Cishaurim strength, as delineated by the Scarlet Spires, Imperial Saik, and so on. It is also referred to as however much of Indara's Water they can carry. I have no problem with this, it makes sense in the same way that it makes sense to me that some people are physically stronger than others.

Now, my question is - how would power be variable among Anagogic and Gnostic schoolmen? We know that such a power divide exists, because Eleazaras is clearly the strongest Scarlet Spire and certain Mandate sorcerers are hinted at being stronger than Akka. Also, there is a difference between initiates and sorcerers-of-rank. But how would their power be varied, when the magic is predicated upon language and meanings? Would simply the speed and strength of one's incantations be the deciding factor? Is there some inborn trait among the Few that determines how strongly they can influence the world with God's voice? Or, perhaps, strength is dependent on how skilfully they can maintain a true inuttered meaning to their sorcery.

I don't know what it is - I wondered if anyone else had thoughts to share, or even better evidence from the series. Thanks! view post

*Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 21 July 2009 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by borock1111, Commoner

I recall the traveler to be akka's man servant........ view post

*Spoilers* Traveller's identity posted 21 July 2009 in The Judging Eye*Spoilers* Traveller's identity by Curethan, Didact

Oh that makes sense. Thanks borock! view post

Now listening to... posted 21 July 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow listening to... by Mats, Candidate

Mostly churning through my old Rush LPs these days, with some sprinkling of King Crimson and Running fucking Wild (!!!). view post

Now Reading... posted 21 July 2009 in Off-Topic DiscussionNow Reading... by Mats, Candidate

Recently started reading Simmons' Ilium, which, halfway through, is promising to be an ultimately satisfying read, as Simmons always is. view post

The No-God and his carapace posted 21 July 2009 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe No-God and his carapace by Nerdanel, Peralogue

I've been thinking about the significance of the No-God appearing in a chorae-studded carapace in the middle of the whirlwind. I think it was all very pragmatic.

The benefits:

The whirlwind stops all physical projectiles as well as people trying to get close. It is unknown if this affects people wearing chorae; it might, but on the other hand the whirlwind appears to be a physical effect even if caused by magic.

The fact that the carapace is flying stops anyone wearing a chorae and thus unable to use magic from reaching it.

The hard and thick carapace again stops all material weapons. It also deflects chorae.

The embedded chorae nullify offensive magic from every direction, both against the No-God's person and the carapace.

The result: The No-God is invulnerable to physical melee weapons, physical ranged weapons, magic, and anti-magic. His undoing was that lasers fit into none of those categories...

The drawbacks:

Now this gets more speculative...

I think the metal of the carapace stopped the No-God from using his own physical sight.

I think the eleven chorae served as barriers to the No-God's magical sight of the Onta. I'm not sure what they did to his ability to cast conventional spells, although they sure didn't help. Perhaps chorae just can't handle spells that are powerful enough like the No-God's whirlwind or perhaps they suppress spells in their vicinity but allow them to pass through.

(&quot;WHAT DO YOU SEE? I CANNOT SEE.&quot;)

I think the problem with the whirlwind was that it was indiscriminate in its effect and had to be aimed away from his own troops in order to avoid friendly casualties, something that was hard to do while blind, not that it mattered that much in the end.

This gets us to the issue of how the No-God was able to navigate around at all under normal circumstances. I think the answer is that he had a third kind of sight available to him. He could reach to the direction of the Outside, bypassing the metal and chorae surrounding him, and from the Outside to the heads of Sranc and similar creatures. He could control what they did and said, and most importantly, see through their eyes.

The drawback of THAT was that if all the suitable creatures in the area found themselves suddenly blinded by, say, a powerful sorcerer casting a simple blindness spell over a whole enemy army, the No-God would have been blinded to the last kind of sight available to him and essentially a sitting duck. I think that's what Seswatha did and why the Sranc clawed their eyes in Achamian's dream.

It's the old story where something seemingly unstoppable turns out to have a small but fatal weak spot. In this case the No-God could have avoided his defeat if he had been aware of the problem, but it looks like he failed to consider all possible factors.

(And yes, I think the No-God would likely be salted on direct contact with a chorae. I think he would explode in a shower of salt much like a Ciphrang, since I think he's basically the same type of being, just far more powerful than the sort Iyokus can summon.) view post


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