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Incariol, what does it mean? posted 03 September 2009 in The Judging EyeIncariol, what does it mean? by Thorsten, Candidate

@Rhadamanth:

So if Incariol is from ' hall of the sky ', are there any references to where Mekeritrig (who seems likely to be Incariol, IMHO) is from? Do you the the ' hall of the sky ' is in any way a reference to the ' ark of the sky ' ?


The translated IhrimsĂ» names are descriptions of the main theme of the life of the person they refer to. Clearly a name like Sin'niroiha 'First among Peoples' (TT:522) cannot be a birth name, so there must be a costom to adopt names later, perhaps a bit similar to pharaonic Egypt. I don't think that there is any reference to an origin in the name.

On a similar note, does anyone else think Kellhus may have translated Auja-Gilcunni (the lost ground tongue of the nonmen)?


I do not think there is any reason to assume that.

@ nonman_erratic:

I follow your logic though am not sure on the "Inc- / Incu-" component. How do you reconcile Inchoroi with Incu-Holoinas? Or do you think the addition of the -h vs the -u to 'Inc' changes the meaning drastically?


I think that aspiration of a consonant might correspond to a more abstract meaning of an element, so is 'great' ish 'exalted' and inc 'sky' inch 'empty'. Admittedly that is a wild stab in the dark, but it does not influence my conclusions on the etymology of Incariol since incu is an attested an translated element, so we know that it exists and do not have to use theories to deduce it.

From there I postulated that Incariol equated to something along the lines of "Empty Hall/Stronghold"... Which I stretched to "Soul-less One"...


To be blunt, that may be guided by your idea of what Incariol is like (and presumably only works with an adopted name by the way), but it is not supported by the linguistic side, inc- does not mean 'empty', inch(o) does.

Personally, I'm not interested in stretching translations - it reveals a lot about your expectations for the character, but not necessarily about what Bakker meant him to be like, or how he chose the name. Thus, I'll leave this field of investigation to someone else <!-- s:D --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!-- s:D -->

@Rhadamanth:

Does Achamian speak Ihrimsu?


No, it is explained clearly that he does not and that sorcery uses a different stage of the language.

@Supersword:

First off, in figuring out the syllables between Nonman words, so far as I can tell is that the only difference between Nonman speech patterns and Human speech patterns would be caused by the fused teeth of the former. Otherwise, they still speak via sound vibrations, which leads me to believe that their syllables would constitute much the same length and shape as Humans'. Therefore, it is my belief that the original thought on in-ca-riol or inc-a-riol present more accurate samples.


In analyzing compounds, the syllable structure is not relevant - you want to track the units that carry meaning. 'motorway' is decomposed in three syllables as 'mo-tor-way', but if you ask for meaning, you find the two elements 'motor' and 'way'. An element of many syllables may nevertheless carry only a single meaning. In studying real-world languages, you find rather extreme examples. So you are arguing more or less based on your taste how you think it should be (which is okay in a sense), but it has not really much to do with the sound producing apparatus.

@ Jerako:

Scott is obviously a student of archaic languages, I wouldn't be surprised if Ihrimsu has much grammar that has been influenced by early Indo-European languages, such as Latin or Ancient Greek.


While much of the nomenclature of sorcery is blatantly based on Ancient Greek (as I outlined elsewhere), I cannot see that IhrimsĂ» would be. If there are any connections beyond chance similarity, they continue to escape me. I also think that such speculations are a bit premature - one would have to know more of the inflection pattern to see if there is a similar language elsewhere. view post


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