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The Logos/Dunyain posted 25 May 2005 in The Thousandfold ThoughtThe Logos/Dunyain by White Lord, Subdidact

Quote: "bovine_buddha":9znqp6gi
About the question whether sorcery is natural or supernatural, where most Fantasy books tend to use the latter, I think it it most important to have in mind the opening quote from PoN Chapter 3:

"If the world is a game whose rules are written by God, and sorcerers are those who cheat and cheat, then who has written the rules of sorcery?"

- Zarathinius, A Defense of the Arcane Arts

As Zarathinius obviously thinks and states (and maybe Bakker), sorcery is not what God used to create the world and is thus not divine, since he believes God also wrote the rules of sorcery (or so I interpret the quote). So while sorcery is certainly not something everyone is capable of, the issue of whether it is natural or supernatural will probably never be fully revealed, since a solution to the question posed in the quote would be philosophical in nature, and thus subjective and highly normative.

Furthermore, Bakker himself has stated that sorcery is hereditary, connected with our genes, which gives further inclination of it being more "natural" than "supernatural".[/quote:9znqp6gi]

I don't know about that. First of all, we know other dimensions of reality (the Outside for one) exist, which obviously have different "natural" rules, and still sorcery can bridge this gap between realities, can bring a demon in the flesh from another world to the one of Earwa.

There is nothing, either in the quote you cite, or in the other references in the books, that somehow negates that sorcery is what was used by the divinity to create all realities. The god has written all rules, so the fact that sorcery has some rules (or that the kind of sorcery men use has these rules, and the relative strength in it available to them) does not preclude some deeper and stronger sorcery that men cannot use.

I also think there is a very good reason behind the availability of sorcery to certain persons in this particular reality. I think it's the use of it by men that is somehow blasphemous, because misunderstood in its original purpose. But there is no question of its divine origin, not even the religions in Earwa doubt that, their condemnation of sorcerers results from the fact they do not think man worthy enough to use the highest power (the power of the God) that can modify reality itself, can bend the rules of nature with the utmost ease. This is also interesting because it makes us ask ourselves whether man is really unworthy, or if maybe the God made sorcery available in the first place because it is the best pathway man can use either to come closest to the God, or to become a god . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) -->

Another interesting thought is that no one really knows what is or isn't possible with sorcery. It is entirely dependent on the intellect and the experience of the sorcerer. So if you consider the God himself as the greatest sorcerer of them all (the one with the greatest intellect), there is nothing that would prevent a human with a big enough imagination, a deep enough intellect, to modify reality to an incredible degree, to somehow achieve a sort of divinity (in the sense that sorcery has absolute control of space and time, as well as other dimensions). It will be very interesting to see what Kellhus can "do" with the Gnosis . . . <!-- s:) --><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!-- s:) --> view post


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