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Do you believe a God exists? posted 30 April 2005 in Philosophy DiscussionDo you believe a God exists? by Cynadar, Candidate

Time to start chipping away... (damn these long posts)

prediction/ extrapolation/ gambling is not how science works. If science was only guesswork, we would be nowhere farther than following animals, because we know they provide food. We would have no language, no religion. You refuse to accept this fact, yet fight for religion which is a product of scientific advancement. Quite interesting, don't you agree?

First of all, I don't understand what the example of the library does to prove the existence of god, but here we go. We're saying that this child was (for no apparent reason) in a library. This child is able to read a book that describes (from what you said earlier) everything imaginable about science. This child understands everything presented in the text. But what does that tell us about the nature of the library? Everything and nothing. You see, you're taking a single moment in an infinite amount of time. We can assume the child doesn't miraculously die seconds after reading this (if he did, the whole argument would be useless). Therefore, the child continues living (and will continue to do as he is a CHILD). The reason I say everything and nothing, is because the book itself provides no example to these questions, but the example of the child as a whole gives us evidence that looking farther into time, we learn everything about the library. This child is smart enough to read and understand EVERYTHING in a book about physics, chemistry, astronomy and basically all forms of science. And then the next sentence you completely disregard this intelligence. The child would then THINK. He would realize he knows everything about the laws of physics and decide to either read more of what the library has to offer, or determine his current position. He would find the entrance/ exit of this library, or a references to the books contained in the library. One side of this, he reads the list of books and determines the reason of the libraries existance. Or he leaves the library (if possible) and determines its location and can use later resources to find its purpose. Third option, he continues reading, and determines the organization of the books in the library, the type of books this library offers and everything else he reads and learns from these books. You looked at one single moment throughout the scale of the situation, when there was so much more. You did not even look into the child's past, which may give reason for the library to exist. Perhaps this child was bred (with modern technology) to be a super-genius (of the likes this world has not seen). The library was a compilation of every single piece of writing ever written to give him abundant knowledge of what we (as humans) already know. You are refusing to take past or present events into account, and therefore, look over any event (past or future) aside from the child reading this book. You label them useless to further the point of your argument so you can attempt to crush any opposition towards it.

The statement that the universe is infinite is completely in line with the fact that is expanding. We as humans cannot perceive anything infinite. When we decide to look at "End Behavior" of a graph (as in math), we draw it out to infinite. Can we actually perform a calculation with this number? NO! We substitute a very large (or very small) number that will cause the calculation to be so nearly equal to the "infinite" value of the function that we can say the two are "equal." Infinite is simply the state of rapid expansion (and decomposition) with no signs of slowing. And, as I said earlier, time in its infinite state will continue to progress in a positive and negative direction. The statement that "God created everything or nothing created everything" becomes a completely useless argument in this case. However, you already gave up this argument, so I'll move on. The law of conservation of mass/ energy states that mass (or energy) cannot be created or destroyed, simply transferred. Again, disproving god's existance. However, "suspending disbelief," god would (of course) have the power to manuever around his own laws... But that goes to the essential simpson's question: (assuming omnipotence of god) "Can god create a..." Burrito in this case, it is simpsons... "Burrito so hot that he can't eat it." How does an omnipotent being exist? It would be impossible for Him to create a burrito so hot that he can't eat it, becuase he can do anything (eat that burrito included). But perahps you can argue omnipotence and keep up with these discrepansies...

I am not saying God does not forgive everyone, I'm saying he doesn't forgive you unless YOU ASK FOR IT (like you said, proving my own point). He claims to be a great forgiver. I am saying that you cannot call him forgiver, when he refuses to forgive all those who deny him. I'll write out the example one more time:

A young man was born and raised muslim. This is all he knows. He hears about the Christian religion, but can't possibly convert (his nature and upbringing do not allow this). He manages to live a good life, making NO MISTAKE WHATSOEVER (which I actually think would be impossible, but for this example, he doesn't do anything that God would not want him to do, aside from being muslim). He dies and God deems him unworthy of acceptance to heavan because of one small thing against him: he was muslim. How can you call that forgiving!? That's cruelty at its worst. God refuses this man simply because he was born to the wrong people? How can anyone in their right mind call THAT forgiving?

Finally, "Why does a parent raise a child, when they know that child will rebel sometime in their life?" My simple answer is this: (most) modern parents are complete idiots, who have kids simply because they want to fuck. They hold expectations for this kid, and destroy any sense of individuality that child will ever have. I use myself in this case. My mom basically refuses to accept the fact that perhaps her religion is wrong; God may not exist. That simple refusal destroys my sense of self. If and when I become a parent, I will hold no expectations, leave my children free to live how they see fit. A certain amount of structure will obviously need to be provided, but I will not say "I don't believe in God, so they CAN'T." I'll raise them aetheist, sure. But allow them to choose whether or not they believe in god, whether or not they want to dress a certain way, whether or not they want a certain career or not, etc (the list goes on, trust me). Parents raise kids with expectations, where they should allow the child to be a true individual. They always hold that expectation that he (or she) won't rebel. "She'll be my little angel" "He'll be a rocket scientist" They are crushed when they realize that the child has no motivation to be a beauty queen or rocket scientist. That causes them to lash out at the child. The child knows that the only way to get back is to rebel and try as hard as they can to go against how their parent (s) raised them. This didn't work so well in my case, because naturally school comes so easy to me (and that's just about the only expectation (aside from religion) that my mom had for me), that I literally can't fail (plus it'll only hurt me later when I attempt to live on my own). That's the only thing we, as teenagers, know how to do to fight it. You see what I mean, how the parent doesn't expect the child to rebel, but by holding that expectation, they allow the child to rebel against that expectation... view post


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